View Poll Results: How was the Dinaric Sub-race derived in your opinion?

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  • Stabilized Alpine-Mediterranean Blend

    43 30.50%
  • A "sister race" of the Armenoid/Near-Eastern type

    56 39.72%
  • Other (please state)

    42 29.79%
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Thread: How Was the Dinaric Sub-Race Derived ?

  1. #1
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    Question How Was the Dinaric Sub-Race Derived ?

    (Responses Appreciated and encouraged)

    Your thoughts?

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    Hejsan,

    I think that there is only a principle of Dinaricisation, and that Dinarid is not a racial type per se. I believe that Pontid is the origin, and the brachycephalic element is either from a brachycephalised Pontid or a Pontid-Gorid type. I cannot see any other origin than Afghanid for the hooked nose among many Dinarids.

    Coon wrote "It may readily be seen that the Dinarics, Norics, and Armenoids have no ethnic or historic unity, but are for the most part parallel results of the same process repeated with similar materials in different places."

    TROE
    [Photographic Supplement, Plate 35]

    They spread to the British Isles from the eastern Mediterranean, and I can see such types every day, but without the brachycephalic skull. The so called Keltic Nordic could have such a strain.

    Furthermore, I think that many long-headed, lower-skulled, dark-haired, light-eyed and fair-skinned Ukrainian Nordids resemble British Nordids.

    "...The means of these Scythian skulls show them to be low mesocephals of moderate cranial dimensions, but with a low vault height. The cranial means are, in fact, almost identical with those of the Keltic series from France and the British Isles. They resemble the Aunjetitz and Hallstatt skulls only as much as the Keltic series mentioned resemble these latter..."

    The Races of Europe by Carleton Stevens Coon
    (Chapter VI, section 5)
    The Scythians

    I would like to hear Frans3108 and asparukh's opinions as well.



    Quote Originally Posted by Trønder
    (Responses Appreciated and encouraged)

    Your thoughts?
    Last edited by Glenlivet; Tuesday, July 22nd, 2003 at 12:39 PM.

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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    I have questioned the Alpine-Mediterranean blend theory ever since I first heard it. I believe Dinarics are a Europid version of Armenoids. They are taller on average than either Alpines or Meds. The occiput is also truncated like that of an Armenoid, and unlike that of either an Alpine or Med. Dinarics are also higher-skulled than either Meds or Alpines.

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    I also tend to go with option #2.

    I know Coon taught that dinaricization was a process, but is there actually any proof of this?
    What makes Coon think that the dinaric is the result of a process, but that other races really are races?
    I mean, if we take Coon's theories as fact, then that means that the Alpine developed out of the Brunn, right? The Brunn is tall and long skulled, whereas the Alpine is short and round skulled. So why not refer to a process of "alpinization" rather than to an "alpine race"?
    Or for that matter why not refer to a process of 'nordicization' rather than to a nordic race?
    If 'dinaricization' is a mixing of med with alpine, and nordics (according to Coon) resulted from a mixing of Corded and Danubian, then why are Nordics considered a race, and dinarics a process?

    Coon says that dinarics have no historical unity, but from what I've read in the first part of The Races of Europe, Coon seems to disagree with himself.
    He states that the bearers of the copper age to Greece were Dinarics who sailed there from Asia Minor.
    He further states that the Bell Beaker folk began as Dinarics which - once again - sailed from Asia Minor to Spain.

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    I have questioned the Alpine-Mediterranean blend theory ever since I first heard it. I believe Dinarics are a Europid version of Armenoids. They are taller on average than either Alpines or Meds. The occiput is also truncated like that of an Armenoid, and unlike that of either an Alpine or Med. Dinarics are also higher-skulled than either Meds or Alpines.
    I found the same flaw in the "Alpine-Med" theory as well Stribog.

    It seems to be that the morphology of the Dinaric type is often not intermediary of the Alpine and Mediterranean, but rather, conveys features which are more accentuated when compared with those found with either type.

    i.e.:

    -A more convex those than either the Alpine of Mediterranean (respectively concave and straight)

    -a rounder orbital region than either the Alpine or Mediterranean (I read once that Dinarics have the roundest orbits out of all the European sub-races. I would imagine the orbit of the Dinaric would be similar to the Mediterranean Proper type, yet nevertheless, it is certainly not the result of an Alpine-Med mixture.

    And as you pointed out Stribog:

    -a flat occipital region (the Alpine shows some flattening, yet the occiput is generally steeper in an Upper Paleolithic manner).

    -Greater Stature

    -Higher Cranial Vault

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    What exactly is a dinaric nose? a hooked nose or a straight profile nose with a fleshy tip? What about dinarics being thick-set and stocky, that is not a med trait.

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by providenje
    What exactly is a dinaric nose? a hooked nose or a straight profile nose with a fleshy tip?

    Here are some photos of Dinarics:

    http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/...Papers/p36.htm
    http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/...Papers/p37.htm
    http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/...Papers/p38.htm
    http://www.legioneuropa.org/Racediv/...Papers/p39.htm

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    Post Dinarics

    Albanians in Greece

    Deniker divides Greece into two halves according to the meridian that passes 20 degrees longitudinal from Paris. People who live west of this line are without doubt of Adriatic-Albanian type, tall and with small head (brachycephalic) like all Albanians of Dinaric race, while east of this meridian, the Greeks of Thessaly "and perhaps a part of them that live in Attica" are of another type quite different, shorter and with smaller cephalic distinguishing characteristics.
    http://www.frosina.org/infobits/albgreece.shtml


    DINARIC RACE

    Central, eastern, and southern European racial type; 2/3 tall Mediterranean strain brachycephalized (dinaricized) through mixture with 1/3 Alpine; typically long-faced and long- and convex-nosed, and intermediate to dark in pigmentation; Dinarics are most common in the Balkans, especially in the Dinaric Alps - the Dinaric racial belt stretches from northern France through southern Germany and the Swiss Alps, and blends into the south-eastern European populations

    http://pub18.ezboard.com/fbalkansfrm...picID=67.topic

    Dinarica

    "Dinarica"-is an international free discussion forum focused on scientific exploration of Dinaric Race from the perspectives of biological,physical anthropology,evolutionary biology,population genetics,bioarchaeologic,ethno-psychological academic fields as well as other kind of studies which in the environment of civilized,plural and free discussion shall enrich the field of Dinaric studies

    http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/186691

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    Post Dinarics

    Do Dinarics come from Syria? What is the origin of this type.

    And what is an example of a relatively pure Dinarid? Is it Vlade Divac?

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    Post Re: Dinarics

    Actually, I think Dinarics come from the Balkans. Before the arrival of the Greeks, that area was inhabitted by a prehistoric people called the Pelazgians and these people were all dinaric, according to skulls found from that era.

    The thing about dinarics is that they are more varied than other subraces, for example you can have a person who looks nordic, or med, yet upon closer inspection he is actually dinaric.

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