Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Ancestral Roots of Today's Europeans

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 10th, 2012 @ 02:10 AM
    Ethnicity
    Afrikaner
    Ancestry
    Slavic
    Country
    South Africa South Africa
    Gender
    Posts
    2,292
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Ancestral Roots of Today's Europeans

    "About 8,000 years ago, a wave of change began to flow west across Europe, largely following the Mediterranean coast. Archaeological sites from the time tell of how early Europeans stopped living as hunter-gatherers and started farming, herding animals and settling in villages. That much is certain. But just how this transition took place has remained a hotly debated question. Did farmers from the Middle East move into the region, or did the locals learn for themselves? And if Neolithic farmers did move west from the Fertile Crescent, did they replace the Paleolithic locals? According to a new study published in last week's issue of Science,the Paleolithic locals held their ground.

    An international team of researchers, led by Ornella Semino of the University of Pavia and Giuseppe Passarino of Stanford University, tackled the question by studying the Y chromosome, transmitted only from father to son, in 1,007 European men from different geographic areas. On the basis of 22 different variations, or genetic markers, on the Y chromosome, they reconstructed a family tree and found that more than 95 percent of the men belonged to only 10 groups, or haplotypes. Two haplotypes come from a marker called M173, which probably arrived in Europe from Asia about 30,000 years ago and might be linked to the Aurignac culture. Two other haplotypes rely on marker M170, which probably came from the Middle East about 20,000 to 25,000 years ago and coincides with the Gravettian culture. In all, the descendents of these Paleolithic markers accounted for 80 percent of the Y-chromosome variants in modern European men.

    As for signs of Neolithic farmers migrating from the Middle East in more recent times, the analysis found that only 20 percent of the current male population bore such markers. The results answer some questions but raise others because they correspond only in part with earlier studies of mitochondrial DNA in European women (mitochondria are inherited through the female line only). A striking difference, for example, is that a female haplogroup that probably arrived from the Middle East 45,000 years ago does not have an equivalent in men. And the female Neolithic haplotypes are not concentrated along the Mediterranean coastline, as are the men’s. The researchers suggest that maybe the women traveled along different routes."

    http://www.sciam.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member Götterschicksal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, September 15th, 2003 @ 06:10 AM
    Location
    Österreich
    Gender
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    Europäer
    Posts
    135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    I thought that we went over Caucasus mountians and to the Ukrainian Plateau during the ice-age. Not by way of Mediterranean.

    „Sollten Sie dabei sein, wenn ich sterbe, so werden Sie sehen, dass ich ruhig dahinscheide; denn ich glaube, dass nach dem Tode alles zu Ende ist.”
    Friedrich der Große

  3. #3
    Purifier
    Azdaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 @ 01:23 AM
    Ethnicity
    Slavic/Germanic
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    -
    Posts
    572
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Götterschicksal
    I thought that we went over Caucasus mountians and to the Ukrainian Plateau during the ice-age. Not by way of Mediterranean.
    The map you posted shows the migrations of the Indo-Europeans. There were people living in Europe prior to these migrations.
    Some of these pre-Indo-Europeans were 'aboriginals' which existed in Europe since the Upper Paleolithic.
    Others migrated from North Africa during the mesolithic.
    Still others, during the neolithic.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Götterschicksal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, September 15th, 2003 @ 06:10 AM
    Location
    Österreich
    Gender
    Occupation
    Student
    Politics
    Europäer
    Posts
    135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    anyone have map of pre-indoeuropeans' migration?
    „Sollten Sie dabei sein, wenn ich sterbe, so werden Sie sehen, dass ich ruhig dahinscheide; denn ich glaube, dass nach dem Tode alles zu Ende ist.”
    Friedrich der Große

  5. #5
    Senior Member Johnny Reb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 29th, 2009 @ 08:58 PM
    Subrace
    Arya/W.Baltic with Brunn
    Country
    Canada Canada
    Gender
    Politics
    Paleoconservative
    Religion
    Catholic
    Posts
    534
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    Were these indigenous people White?

  6. #6
    Purifier
    Azdaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 @ 01:23 AM
    Ethnicity
    Slavic/Germanic
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    -
    Posts
    572
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Reb
    Were these indigenous people White?
    Yes. The 'classic' Upper Paleolithic man is the Brunn, which is the type we most often associate with the Irish.
    The Falish, Borreby, and possibly Nordic and Alpine subraces are all UP-derived.

    Unfortunately I do not have any maps of pre Indo-European migrations.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 2nd, 2011 @ 09:33 PM
    Ethnicity
    eurafrican
    Ancestry
    eurafrican
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    south of heaven
    Gender
    Age
    48
    Occupation
    fireman
    Politics
    liberal
    Posts
    340
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Reb
    Were these indigenous people White?
    hi,
    http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/1/22/F1
    perhaps we can associate the early arriving UPs with the M45 lineage.
    http://www.perigord.tm.fr/~pip/15992/15992a04.htm
    http://www.perigord.tm.fr/~pip/15992/15992a05.htm
    these passages above coincide with the probability that m45 is the ancestor of many europeans and native americans and perhaps they looked like many amerinds.
    http://www.perigord.tm.fr/~pip/15992/15992tdm.htm
    (this site, which is very hard to read ,was introduced by mr goossens sometime ago and gives detailed (very) information about the reindeer hunter period in the continental europe.)
    best regards

  8. #8
    Purifier
    Azdaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, April 25th, 2012 @ 01:23 AM
    Ethnicity
    Slavic/Germanic
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    -
    Posts
    572
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by asparukh
    these passages above coincide with the probability that m45 is the ancestor of many europeans and native americans and perhaps they looked like many amerinds.
    Are you saying that Cro-Magnons looked like Amerinds? Or are you refering to post UP arrivals?

  9. #9
    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Last Online
    Thursday, January 18th, 2007 @ 06:36 PM
    Subrace
    Other
    Gender
    Age
    54
    Politics
    Living in the real world
    Posts
    3,864
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    I thought Kennewick man looks UP.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Vetinari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, June 15th, 2012 @ 04:40 AM
    Subrace
    Other
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Religion
    Lovecraftian
    Posts
    244
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by asparukh
    http://www.perigord.tm.fr/~pip/15992/15992a04.htm
    http://www.perigord.tm.fr/~pip/15992/15992a05.htm
    these passages above coincide with the probability that m45 is the ancestor of many europeans and native americans and perhaps they looked like many amerinds.
    Actually Native Americans probably looked very similar to Europeans until they intermarried with people who came to America from East Asia a few thousand years ago.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3086777.stm

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SNPs: Nothern Europeans gentically differ from Southern Europeans
    By celticviking in forum Population Genetics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Monday, August 22nd, 2011, 03:46 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Sunday, January 3rd, 2010, 10:23 AM
  3. Ancestral Airs/ Ancestral Memory
    By verdasmedley in forum Genealogy & Ancestry DNA
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Wednesday, October 14th, 2009, 10:05 PM
  4. The face of our ancestral mother
    By Loki in forum Paleoanthropology
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: Saturday, November 15th, 2003, 08:57 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •