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Thread: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

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    Post Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    The denial by Indian scholars of the validity of the Aryan Invasion Theory is in all appearances exactly that which they ascribe to the AIT itself, a politically motivated theory (or attempted refutation of a theory). How can anyone accept their claims that the AIT is invalid taking into consideration their political motivations for making such claims?

    Furthermore, how can they deny the infusion of a Caucasoid population into India at some point in history, whether in 1500 BC or before, through some means, whether by invasion or peaceful means? The first reason would seem to be the existence of Indo-European languages in India. Secondly, haven't anthropologists concluded that an albeit mixed form of Caucasoid racial type exists in Northern India? What about Carleton Coon's statement in "The Origin of Races" that most of India was Caucasoid?

    "Here (in India) the majority of the population, including speakers of both Indo-European and Dravidian tongues, is Caucasoid.

    "As the skeletal material from the Bronze Age civilization of the Indus Valley includes Caucasoid, Australoid, and Mongoloid skulls, all we know is that these three subspecies were represented in northwest India as early as 2400 B.C.

    "The circumstantial evidence of geographical distribution slightly favors the greater antiquity of the Caucasoids, because of the racial situation in Ceylon. That island was settled by the ancestors of the Singhalese, who came from northern India speaking an Indo-European tongue, about 500 B.C. Later, Tamil-speaking people from south India settled on the northern part of the island. Both these peoples are primarily Caucasoid, although the Singhalese also contain a Mongoloid element."

    Is it simply unreasonable to accept the Aryan Invasion Theory as being valid due to the supposed pieces of evidence refuting it? Should the respondents to the claims of Indian nationalist scholars reevaluate the AIT and place it at an earlier date? I recognize the problems of the dating of the Rig-Veda, but I am uncertain about the other problems with the AIT. Is it valid?
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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Could you please explain your choice of pictures to illustrate your thesis?

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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Sorry, I should have renamed them so they were in the right order, but I think it's pretty apparent which comparisons I was trying to draw. The picture of the girl drinking tea I found on a bag of black tea (Lipton) from India. It's a crummy scan.


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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake
    The denial by Indian scholars of the validity of the Aryan Invasion Theory is in all appearances exactly that which they ascribe to the AIT itself, a politically motivated theory (or attempted refutation of a theory). How can anyone accept their claims that the AIT is invalid taking into consideration their political motivations for making such claims?
    Theres no question the Aryan invasion happened though it wouldnt have been just one event but a series of invasions. The Arayan-deniers either claim Indo-European languages appeared in South Asia, which is very unlikely, or they deny the utility of traditional linguistics.

    Is it simply unreasonable to accept the Aryan Invasion Theory as being valid due to the supposed pieces of evidence refuting it? Should the respondents to the claims of Indian nationalist scholars reevaluate the AIT and place it at an earlier date? I recognize the problems of the dating of the Rig-Veda, but I am uncertain about the other problems with the AIT. Is it valid?
    It would make most sense to suggest there was continuous contact between the Aryans and the Indus which was remembered. And I dont think anyone seriously doubts that India is largely Caucasoid and it was predominantly so since earlier times than the arrival of the Arayans.

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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake
    Sorry, I should have renamed them so they were in the right order, but I think it's pretty apparent which comparisons I was trying to draw.
    Gotcha.

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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    By the way, I'm not Indian. I'm Swedish-Polish, but I think Vedic culture is fascinating, and I would hate to see it hi-jacked by Dravidians.


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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Was the Mongoloid a significant element of the Indus Valley or the Aryan?

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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake
    By the way, I'm not Indian. I'm Swedish-Polish, but I think Vedic culture is fascinating, and I would hate to see it hi-jacked by Dravidians.
    You should check into "Vedic Math"; these people apparently were doing crazy things mathematically long before even the Greeks. Google search it if you do not have access to a book on the subject and would like to learn more.

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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett
    Was the Mongoloid a significant element of the Indus Valley or the Aryan?
    No but they were present at least in the Indus Valley.

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    Post Re: Caucasoids in India - Question of the AIT

    However, a 2001 examination of male Y-DNA by Indian and American scientists indicated that higher castes are genetically closer to West Eurasians than are individuals from lower castes, whose genetic profiles are similar to other Asians. These results indicates that at some point male West Eurasians provided a significant genetic input into the higher castes, a result which supports the notion that the caste system was an attempt by these predominantly male arrivals to keep themselves separate from the native population.
    The study also revealed another classic anthropological observation, that of women being significantly more mobile in terms of caste and hierarchical class than men, who are almost not socially mobile at all in terms of caste and hierarchical class. Genetic evidence reveals that over millennia men have married women from lower castes but women have rarely married men from lower castes. Thus the researchers imply that caste and class to a large extent is perpetuated by women and has also thereby contributed to the minimal mixing of Aryan blood with the natives.
    In a recent research paper [cordaux:2004 (http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/C...urBiol2004.pdf)] in Current Biology, Cordaux et. al. confirms the Bamshad (2001) results and concludes that the paternal lineages of Indian caste groups are primarily descendants of Indo-European speakers who migrated from central Asia about 3,500 years ago.
    Interestingly, studies show that there has been very little mixing of the male line between castes/clans for sometime. They show distinct haplotypes even though many clans within a region have similar haplogroups. For instance North West Indians contain mainly haplogroups R1a1, R1b, J2 and L, yet there is very little sharing of haplotypes with other castes/clans in the same region. In fact according to the yhrd.org database Jats (mainly Punjabi Sikhs) have more haplotypes in common with Germans, Balts,Slavs and Iranians(between 2%-10% ,1-5 haplotypes, mainly R1a1) than with neighbouring Pakistanis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_i...l_Anthropology
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