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Thread: "Ethnic or Civic Nation: Theorizing the American Case"

  1. #11
    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    For the purpose of human progress and profit a civic nation may serve its purposes. An ethnic nation can live within a civic nation cooperatively.

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    I believe multi-culturalism stems from a shallow understanding of culture that is common among thoroughly decultured individuals in the West. They think of silly little dances and ethnic foods within a large Western cesspool and grin sheepishly at how quaint it all is until a Muslim comes along and decapitates them on video tape. Or perhaps they listen to classical music and think that must be what "culture" is, so more of it can never hurt.

    Culture in our sense consists of shared attitudes, values and customs. They define the very purpose of our existence through the group they are practised in. Competing cultures are introduced into our territory through competing groups, whose racial composition often differs vastly from our own. The repelling effects this has is what destroys the possibility to achieve a unified culture that encompasses both, even if one thought this was desirable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PendaMercia View Post
    IMO, the problem is at the very least, ethno-centric. Nearly half of us loathe the concept of 'multi-culturalism', so I think painting the US with that broad brush is somewhat unfair. Given your stated location, you should know this.

    Race will always be an issue, because even a nation of truly racially mixed people will identify most strongly with the culture and language associated with one of the races in the mix. Multi-culturalism is a joke and the sociology it is based on is the absolute worst kind of reductionism. The culture and language of the race that the nation idenifies with is its ethnicity.

    There is and always be the ethnic war. It is only a real problem when it is happening within a Nation rather than between Nations.
    How can you say that "nearly half of us loathe the concept"? America is by nature Multicultural. I know very few pedigree people. Anyone I know that has Northern European heritage even has it from more than one place. I do not feel like that is isolated to my area at all. It is what America stands for, the government and the mass consciousness. It is America's official stance. It is politically incorrect to even mention race in any way but condemning racism.

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    I can not see any evidence that these policies have ever been abandoned. The main problem, was the fact that most non Anglo-Saxon immigrants, were not easy to assimilate. They chose to settle areas en mass and maintain their ethnic identity. This obviously posed a threat to the old stock. Especially, as the article points out, due to declining Anglo immigration. So the native elite, were faced with a dilemma. Either become engulfed by the wave of new immigration and run the risk of reverse assimilation or devise a method to quicken assimilation among the foreigners (Irish, German, Italian, etc.) I think that the evidence is over whelming that such assimilation did take place. Only small communities, and pockets of America now are any thing but Anglicized. The interesting thing is even with all the hype about inter-racial relations, that up until the year 2000 only 1% of this new 'white' population practice miscegenation. I have no ideal what the current figure is but I am sure it is not much higher. As the article points out, the melting pot idea represented a fusion process, among the various European ethnics. Not the multi-racial conglomerate myth that is currently perpetuated.

    Thanks for re listing this article, it has really shed some light on the issue of motive for me. An area I was unclear about.

  5. #15
    Account Inactive PendaMercia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    For the purpose of human progress and profit a civic nation may serve its purposes. An ethnic nation can live within a civic nation cooperatively.
    I do not disagree with this at all, and there is a very interesting discussion to be had about it. Any ideas on what the cooperative would be like?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauke Haien View Post
    I believe multi-culturalism stems from a shallow understanding of culture that is common among thoroughly decultured individuals in the West. They think of silly little dances and ethnic foods within a large Western cesspool and grin sheepishly at how quaint it all is until a Muslim comes along and decapitates them on video tape.
    lmao..both true and hilarious.

    Or perhaps they listen to classical music and think that must be what "culture" is, so more of it can never hurt.

    Culture in our sense consists of shared attitudes, values and customs. They define the very purpose of our existence through the group they are practised in. Competing cultures are introduced into our territory through competing groups, whose racial composition often differs vastly from our own. The repelling effects this has is what destroys the possibility to achieve a unified culture that encompasses both, even if one thought this was desirable.
    I do think that much of the momentum and actual predicate of multi-culturalism is a deep self-hatred among many whites and a longing to see their own civilization destroyed. Not a conspiracy so much as a tragedy of unintended consequences. When such a consequence does come the reaction is, "Oh well, we deserved it for what we did to them". This implicit impetus forms the framework of the reductionism that leads to ultimately unscientific and harmful conclusions.

    It is this squirming coil of white self-hatred that empowers other ethnic groups to compete with our own. That and the fact that despite any claims, these ethnic groups are operating from our cultural and institutional paradigm- movements derived from forms that we created ourselves. Example- they speak our language and use the inherent power of that language against us; an african or mexican isn't even a "huMan" until he learns English and comprehends what that word means in English.

    When he is able to self-valuate using the system of our language, he becomes something like a "huMan". That is a dangerous troll-like mix of our empowering language and culture with his perception of his own culture. Until he perceives something like an equality with us, seeing his own culture through the lense of our own and mistaking it for being more than what it is.

    When this pastiche, bumbling collection of imitators is aided by self-hating whites who neutralize masculinity, Manhood, our own Humanity, it suddenly becomes dangerous: Multiculturalism as 'science', as 'the new way'. So vulgar. Feces is nasty enough on its own but when a segment of it bears resemblance to a human form, it is all the more revolting.

    As nasty as it is to shine a flashlight into a toilet, that is what we have to do in order to demonstrate that the thing needs flushed immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by triedandtru View Post
    How can you say that "nearly half of us loathe the concept"? America is by nature Multicultural. I know very few pedigree people. Anyone I know that has Northern European heritage even has it from more than one place. I do not feel like that is isolated to my area at all. It is what America stands for, the government and the mass consciousness. It is America's official stance. It is politically incorrect to even mention race in any way but condemning racism.
    The idea that half of us loathe multi-culturalism comes from the relative parity between the conservatives and liberals in the country. Conservatives as a rule, hate multi-culturalism and fight (or at least complain about) it at every turn.

    It is also important to bear in mind that people perceive themselves to be German, and these usually are not advocates of multiculturalism.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/german-american

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-by-County.svg

    You do realize that the 'official stamp' put on things, the outward appearance that mainstream media want to show is advocacy of multi-culturalism. Maybe I live in an especially racially-conscious region, but people speak openly about their hatred for multi-culturalism. The disconnect between the government-media and the people has perhaps never been greater. What I read in the news paper and see on tv about what people think, and what most people actually think when I talk to them are entirely different things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PendaMercia View Post
    . The disconnect between the government-media and the people has perhaps never been greater. What I read in the news paper and see on tv about what people think, and what most people actually think when I talk to them are entirely different things.
    I do hope that's the case. I have to say I experience the opposite in my area and many people I interact with outside of my region. It'd be nice if people were more ethnically conscience.

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    Account Inactive PendaMercia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triedandtru View Post
    I do hope that's the case. I have to say I experience the opposite in my area and many people I interact with outside of my region. It'd be nice if people were more ethnically conscience.
    The people I talk to, I can only speak for my own region. There is huge ethnic consciousness here. As for everyone else, I can only speak about who runs for office, who votes for them, and the general major backlash concerning immigration.

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    I am hoping it intensifies, then. Here people are talking about how we should be doing more for the immigrants. It is disgusting. Many have been brainwashed, or so it seems.
    "Gallantly shall he speak and gifts bring who wishes for woman's love: praise the features of the fair girl. Who courts well will conquer."

    The three highest causes of the true human are: Truth, Honor, and Duty.

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    PLEs and interest groups like an NAACP for our folk. Or like what they have in Iraq- pretty strong ethnic loyalties and their own leadership heirarchy. Just with less fighting hopefully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triedandtru View Post
    I am hoping it intensifies, then. Here people are talking about how we should be doing more for the immigrants. It is disgusting. Many have been brainwashed, or so it seems.
    People have views they do not outwardly express. Expressing views that seem acceptable is a social norm. It makes one feel normal and acceptable to others. To those who rarely reflect on their own views, this habit can seem to them like their own views.

    But these are not their views. It is our job to guide them to their own views.
    There are many ignorant and intellectually lazy people. They are not necessarily bad people, just simple folk. In their ignorance they default the shaping of their worldview to others who are not so lazy. As such, they are fields ripe for the harvest. And those who hate us (and the good simple folk)
    are harvesting them. Those of us called to find each other, to find some rallying point, we who are neither lazy nor self-hating, nor a minority competitor, it is on us to lead the simple good folk.

    This is a showing, not a telling. The good writer does not say "The woman is beautiful", instead he leads the reader to the conclusion that the woman is beautiful through description and other literary devices. It goes to the ancient core of craftsmanship, the form is guided forth from the base medium. In 'Will to Power as Art', the great German philosopher, Heidegger has much to say on this subject.

    There are many ways to do this, but in order to put forth the required concentrated and unified effort, we need to agree on some central principles. From this consensus we can develop an agenda, some form of strategy and some type of day-to-day tactical action and thinking.

    In the end, there is not one of us who should not be able to have a powerful long-term effect on the people, relationships and organizations that we are a part of in the long term, and likewise we should have a powerful short-term impact on those people, relationships, and organizations that we deal with only in passing on a short term basis.

    Committing to this kind of plan is how we win.

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