Haplogroup map of Europe

[Stríbog]

Here is the complete haplogroup genetic map of Europe, not the cut-off version that was here before.
I have been talking with Loki about it. I think that:
HG1 is Upper Paleolithic
HG9 and HG21 represent the Neolithic influx from the Middle East which brought modern agriculture

Those are the only ones I am fairly certain about.
HG2 and HG3 confuse me because at first sight they seem like they could be Indo-European/Nordic/Battle Axe but then there are high levels in places like India and Sardinia. I'm also confused why Yugoslavia would be more Battle Axe than Russia.
HG16 is of course the subject of quite a bit of arguing here.
I think that it looks to be northeastern European and not necessarily Mongoloid in origin. I could of course be wrong.
I'd like other people's perspectives...



baz.perlmonk.org/haplogroups.jpg

[Tore]

I have tried to as well to match each haplogroup with varying phenotypes and ultimately I found out that it is not possible, as each haplogroup is more varied and diverse than I had originally thought. For example, statistically speaking, hg 1 cannot be simply Upper Paleolithic, due to its predominance in both the British Isles and South Western Europe. The high proportion of hg1 in these areas suggest that the Atlanto-Mediterranean people are also responsible for hg 1 influence, and thus, it must be vaguely deemed "old-European" instead.

Haplogroup 2 is somewhat more difficult to assess in its origins, due to the lack of uniformity present in its distribution. Hg 2 is of influence both in the Balkans and among what appears to be areas affected by the Völkerwanderung (Southern Sweden, E. Norway, Denmark, N. Germany, E. Britain, Benelux). This troubled me greatly until I stumbled upon this:


"The set of most common values for HG2 given here is based on a database of 140 results whose HG2 components were likely primarily of the haplogroup "I" branch. Haplogroup "I" is found in Central and Eastern Europe, but also accounts for almost all the HG2s in Northern Europe and the British Isles. Haplogroup "I" is thought to stem from a group (Gravettian culture) that arrived in Europe from the Middle East about 25,000 years ago. The Gravettian culture was "known for its Venus figurines, shell jewellery, and for using mammoth bones to build homes".


The other parts of HG2 - Haplogroups F, G, and J - are more common in Southern and Eastern Europe. They are believed to be the descendants of the Neolithic farmers from the Middle East who were the first to practice agriculture in Europe. Each of those branches will have their own set of common values - all different from that shown here for "I". If your values for DYS426, DYS438 and GGAAT1B07 match those of HG2 but you differ from the HG2 most common values in more than about ten markers, then you may belong to the F, G, or J parts of HG2.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....elGen/YCC.html

As with haplogroup 1, hg 2 is also subject to variation within itself. IMHO, it shows a correlation with Nordic, Nordic intermediary types ( Anglo-Saxon, Falid, yet NOT to a great deal with the type), as well as Dinaric and perhaps Pontid strains.

Haplogroup 3 is indicitive of Battle-Axe/Corded-Ware/Indo-European ancestry. As the map shows, it is mainly present in Eastern Europe among what are commonly referred to as "Slavic" populations, as well as in W. Norway and Viking settled areas of Iceland and the British Isles, due to the Battle-Axe strain present among the Trønder type. Haplogroup 3 appears to be less varied then the previous two haplogorups.

Lastly, haplogroup 16 is, as you pointed out Stribog, the focal point of genetic debate around here. I was nearly convinced that hg 16 was originally unique to Europid (more specifically N.Eastern Europid) populations, due to the distinct East-West gene flow that is present among hg 16, that is until I read this:

http://www.dienekes.com/blog/archives/000210.html


Haplotype 3, defined by the TAT-C allele and found and found
in 14.6% of Tuvinians, 5.4% of Altaians, 11.8% of
Sojots, and 18.8% of Khakassians, cannot be unambiguously
attributed to either Mongoloid or Caucasoid lineages.
It is established that TAT-C allele of the RBF5
locus is distributed predominantly in Northern Eurasia.
Maximum frequencies of this allele were observed in
Yakuts (86%), Buryats from Mongolia (52%), and also
in such Finno-Ugric peoples as Finns (61%), Estonians
(37%), and Maris (33%)

The high incidence of hg 16 (Tat C) among the Yakuts and Buryats essentially rebunked my original theory that hg 16 was a purely European gene marker, and due to the lack of similarity between the Finns and other non-European populations that have recieved a large genetic contribution from hg 16 (Buryats, Yakuts), the only reasonable explanation is that hg 16 arose prior to the splitting of Mongoloids and Europids.

[Stríbog]

the only reasonable explanation is that hg 16 arose prior to the splitting of Mongoloids and Europids.

This is my conclusion as well. I have been thinking for a while that it is a relic of the proto-Eurasian race that later diverged, as you said. The concentrations today are highest, though, in seemingly Europid populations.

[Azdaja]

"The other parts of HG2 - Haplogroups F, G, and J - are more common in Southern and Eastern Europe. They are believed to be the descendants of the Neolithic farmers from the Middle East who were the first to practice agriculture in Europe. "

Ok cool. This is what I thought. Basically, HG2 = Danubian and HG3 = Corded.

[Stríbog]

Haplogroup 3 is indicitive of Battle-Axe/Corded-Ware/Indo-European ancestry. As the map shows, it is mainly present in Eastern Europe among what are commonly referred to as "Slavic" populations, as well as in W. Norway and Viking settled areas of Iceland and the British Isles, due to the Battle-Axe strain present among the Trønder type. Haplogroup 3 appears to be less varied then the previous two haplogorups.

But the highest rates are encountered in Pakistani and Indian populations? At first I speculated that it could be simply generic Neolithic Caucasian, but it is extremely low to non-existent in North African, Arab and Jewish populations. The areas of higher concentration seem to run in a definite band to the southeast, from Norway and Iceland through Russia and the Ukraine to Pakistan and India. I am still confused about it at this point.

[Tore]

But the highest rates are encountered in Pakistani and Indian populations? At first I speculated that it could be simply generic Neolithic Caucasian, but it is extremely low to non-existent in North African, Arab and Jewish populations. The areas of higher concentration seem to run in a definite band to the southeast, from Norway and Iceland through Russia and the Ukraine to Pakistan and India. I am still confused about it at this point.

Yeah, I suppose I should have addressed this, yet I was only thinking about the European genetic picture for some reason.

There are two possible explanations:

1) Polak's theory by which he has proposed, that being that hg 3 was carried to Southern Asia by the Battle-Axe people and is found in high concentrations among the the Higher Castes of today's populations.

2) I read an article somewhere that hg 3 arose in Southern Asia independently, and was not brought by Aryan invaders.

I'll try to find the article...

Edit- Here is the article: http://www.racearchives.com/archived...ID=64510524273

[Allenson]

Hello,

I'm not sure if others can access the scientific article that this map is derived from or not. I work at a university and thus we have an online subscription to the American Journal of Human Genetics in which this article was published.

If someone wishes to have this article but can't access it, send me an email or PM and I'll be happy to email it along. It's about 4.65 MB so it's too big to attach to a post here....

I just downloaded it myself and it should make for some good 'bed-time' reading tonight. Nothing like curling up and reading a good scientific paper before bed.

[Azdaja]

Originally posted by Trønder
1) Polak's theory by which he has proposed, that being that hg 3 was carried to Southern Asia by the Battle-Axe people and is found in high concentrations among the the Higher Castes of today's populations.

I think he's right just based on what we know about the IE migrations.

I also noticed that by taking HG2 as the Danubian marker and HG3 as the Corded marker, you can actually see the migration pattern of these two groups into Europe. The Danubians come up from the Southeast, and the B.A.s come down from the Northeast.
Not that you guys don't already know this. But I'm just starting to look into this stuff (the markers, that is) and noticed this 'pattern' last night while in IM with Stribog.

A question:
Does anyone have any idea as to why HG1 is so prominent amongst that first Pakistani group?

[Allenson]

What do folks make of the surprisingly high Bedouin and North African markers found in the Netherlands? Neolithic farmers?

[Stríbog]

Yea, that's what I concluded.