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Thread: "Bad girls"

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    Post "Bad girls"

    What are your thoughts on women of today becoming more and more violent towards others? I was reading the following article today and I thought it could be something good to discuss:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8101517/site/newsweek/

    The article, which you can read for yourself, talks about the growing problem of women being violent to other women. I think this is not only a problem towards other women, but I also see violence by women towards men as increasing as well. Do you see there being a rise in violence by women? Do you think it is a problem?

    The article brings up that we are teaching our girls to be more assertive and aggressive these days. Do you see mother's/ programs teaching this to girls and how do you think this affects them?

    Just some questions to get you started. In my opinon, as I mentioned, I see not only women on women violence increasing, but also women on men violence increasing. I think it is a growing problem, but one that is grown out of women's resistance to victimization. As feminism and the increase in awareness of how women are treated has increased, I think the aggression is a natural reaction of this. I am not meaning to imply that all women are victims or have hitorically been treated as such. Some things are factual, such as statistically 1 in every 3 girls is molested or raped. That number is rediculously high. I think that women of today are fighting back and refusing to take it anymore. There was an article in the news not to long ago about an 8 year old black girl who had been through some of that training that teaches kids what to do if attacked. When she was getting off the bus afterschool one day, a man jumped out from behind a bush and grabbed her. The girl basically kicked his @$$. The guy ran off and she was able to identify him. I would hope if someone ever tried to grab my daughter that she would do the same.

    Comments? Thoughts?
    "I do not know what horrified me most at that time: the economic misery of my companions, their moral and ethical coarseness, or the low level of their intellectual development." Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    My impression is that the most aggressive tendencies among todays young women have a racial explanation; ie. the girls who beat up, rob and threaten other girls are almost always immigrant girls. Also the women who murdered or beat up their men, that we have read about in the media here, are also immigrants/import-wives. Apparently their lower IQ and higher level of testosterone causes this.

    Apart from that, I think it is a case of what the young Engels termed the "social war" growing ever more intense and brutal. Earlier many women were sheltered from the social war in the family, but not so anymore. I don't really know what to say about the development though, as you mention it is good that more women fight back against potential rapists, even though I would prefer a society characterised by social peace rather than a state of war.

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    A violent immigrant girl...............i haven't words to describe my feelings toward a similar social subject .

    Sorry, usually i would report a more intellectual explainations on social phenomena, but honestly, when i hear of these cases, i loose my patience, and i'm more interested to BEAT than to understand. (probably I'm a middle-way between the intellectual university student, and the underground worrior "John Carpenter style").

    What disturb me most is the image of "her" who insults and attack violently the culture of the country where she lives.................she doesn't like the males because they're the "ruler" and so she is a victim of this damn European sexist system. I 'd be curious to see how those women would be free in their countries of origin . (In the bed obviously )


    Pardon, for the lowbrow comment ; it's not typical of me, but it's what i think, (besides i'm not too patient with the subject )

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    My impression is that the most aggressive tendencies among todays young women have a racial explanation; ie. the girls who beat up, rob and threaten other girls are almost always immigrant girls. Also the women who murdered or beat up their men, that we have read about in the media here, are also immigrants/import-wives. Apparently their lower IQ and higher level of testosterone causes this.
    This premise is laughable on several accounts:

    1) "European women are dainty angels who would never dream of physically harming another human. Violence in women, like every problem our society faces, is the result of foreign influence."

    2) "Testosterone and IQ are invariably correlated with violence."

    3) "Immigrant women all have higher testosterone and lower IQs than European women."

    Apart from that, I think it is a case of what the young Engels termed the "social war" growing ever more intense and brutal. Earlier many women were sheltered from the social war in the family, but not so anymore. I don't really know what to say about the development though, as you mention it is good that more women fight back against potential rapists, even though I would prefer a society characterised by social peace rather than a state of war.
    The cause of this preference is, no doubt, a testosterone deficiency.

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    Well, considering most violent crimes are commited by immigrants, it would be only sensible to assume that minorities have more violent behaviours. Thus, I don't see anything wrong with the assumption that immigrant women might be more violent too. Also, I'm not sure, but I think negroes have more testosterone than caucasians and asians. It would be safe to assume the same applies to their women. However, this wouldn't be true of asians and for some reason I'm pretty confident this applies to reality. Considering the rate of violent crimes among men and their tendency to have a higher testosterone than most women(I think) maybe there is also a relation between the two. I really wouldn't be surprised. I don't agree about IQ, though. But then again, maybe some research has been done on the subject and I'm not aware of it. Also, I was wondering: was there an increase of assaults against women recently (in the last 50 years)? This might be part of the explanation. And of course, feminism, women taking control of their bodies and their sexualities had a great influence on this too. But for some reason, maybe I'm dreaming and all, but I'm pretty sure that when little girls were picked up by their big brother/father at the bus stop, there was less assaulting going on in the streets. Maybe.

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    About the correlation between race, testosterone level and violent crime, professor Rushton has written a lot. It is also easily verified by all who have an insight in these matters, from teachers to journalists and cops. The most violent girls are almost always immigrants.

    I don't think my initial post was laughable, I wrote "almost always". Nobody wrote "invariably correlated" or "all have higher testosterone and lower IQ"...

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    Women are more likely than men to commit certain acts of violence but have, on average, lower testosterone levels than men. Clearly, testosterone is not the main variable at work here. Despite being a "high-testosterone woman", I myself am not a particularly violent person -- when not provoked.


    In America. . .

    ~ Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men: 56.8 percent to 43.2 percent. “Fire With Fire,” p. 221

    ~ Women are more likely to kill their children than are men: 55 percent to 45 percent. [Source: “Women and Violent Crime,” a paper by Prof. Rita J. Simon, Department of Justice, Law and Society and Washington College of Law, American University, Washington, D.C]

    ~ Women commit almost all of the murders of newborns. In Dade County, Fla., between 1956 and 1986, according to the June 1990 Journal of Interpersonal Violence 5:2, mothers accounted for 86 percent of newborn deaths. When She Was Bad, p. 255, note 71

    ~ More American women are assaulted by other women than by husbands or ex-husbands.

    ~ As for spouse abuse, sociologists Murray Straus and Jan Stets analyzed the 1985 National Family Violence Survey, the largest survey on domestic violence, and wrote, "Of the... respondents who experienced one or more assaults, both parties engaged in violence in 49 percent of the cases, violence by men occurred in 23 percent of the cases, and violence by women occurred in 28 percent of the cases. No significant differences were found by gender of respondent . . . [W]omen not only engage in physical violence as often as men, but they also initiate violence about as often as men.”


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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    Interesting statistics. However most of those statistics have little to do with Jennifers original post, about increased girl-on-girl violence.

    Women abusing their children probably are caused more by mental illnesses, and the fact that mothers still usually spend more time in the home than men. Murdering ones own children is usually not a testosterone-driven crime. We are not talking about intra-family violence here, we are talking about more public violence.

    So I still say that testosterone is an important factor at work to explain the increase of girl-on-girl violence. Especially in Sweden, where it is so easy to see the correlation to immigrantion and immigrant girls from high-testosterone and/or low-IQ racial groups (ie. Middle-Easterners and Negroes). Of course there are other factors at work here too, like the break-down of adult authority, the commercialised version of feminism, and the overall africanisation of society, but they don't explain why immigrant girls are more violent than native ones.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abby Normal
    Women are more likely than men to commit certain acts of violence but have, on average, lower testosterone levels than men. Clearly, testosterone is not the main variable at work here. Despite being a "high-testosterone woman", I myself am not a particularly violent person -- when not provoked.


    In America. . .

    ~ Women are more likely to commit major physical abuse of their children than are men: 56.8 percent to 43.2 percent. “Fire With Fire,” p. 221

    ~ Women are more likely to kill their children than are men: 55 percent to 45 percent. [Source: “Women and Violent Crime,” a paper by Prof. Rita J. Simon, Department of Justice, Law and Society and Washington College of Law, American University, Washington, D.C]

    ~ Women commit almost all of the murders of newborns. In Dade County, Fla., between 1956 and 1986, according to the June 1990 Journal of Interpersonal Violence 5:2, mothers accounted for 86 percent of newborn deaths. When She Was Bad, p. 255, note 71

    ~ More American women are assaulted by other women than by husbands or ex-husbands.

    ~ As for spouse abuse, sociologists Murray Straus and Jan Stets analyzed the 1985 National Family Violence Survey, the largest survey on domestic violence, and wrote, "Of the... respondents who experienced one or more assaults, both parties engaged in violence in 49 percent of the cases, violence by men occurred in 23 percent of the cases, and violence by women occurred in 28 percent of the cases. No significant differences were found by gender of respondent . . . [W]omen not only engage in physical violence as often as men, but they also initiate violence about as often as men.”


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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    Oskorei, you missed one rather significant statistic regarding girl on girl violence...

    Quote Originally Posted by Abby Normal
    ~ More American women are assaulted by other women than by husbands or ex-husbands.
    There is something that statistics don't show here, I think. For a man to assault a woman isn't really considered honourable in western societies, but women hitting each other wearing bikinis in pools of mud is considered sexy(weird.....) That's why most men think twice and thrice before even starting to think to touch a woman in a somewhat brutal manner. I don't think there's that kind of social pressure on women. But it is true that violence isn't considered feminine either, so women might refrain from using violence in order to remain a "decent" lady. This has been reduced quite a lot by the growth of feminism though. You get to see all those speedstick ads showing women kickboxing and beating people up now. I really don't know which has the most impact.

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    Post Re: "Bad girls"

    I won't even get into the immigrant issue, as I think my first had experiences, and my awareness of growing craziness among women is almost entirely in America.

    The immigrant women here tend to actually have less of this problem than the American woman of European descent, who have been liberated, but who do not have any respect for their own culture, if they even have any anymore, any respect for a value system that might be held higher in priority and their freedom, and no other system that might encourage them to have honor. If women are "liberated" from subservience/obescience to males, society, and they themselves must require of them equal accountability, lest they destroy themselves and their own society. At this point after having been involved with and committed to a number of Scandinavian American, or Irish American women from privileged families, who nonetheless had little respect for themselves, me, or their own heritage, or much of anything else than credit cards, and being drunk on their own emotions, some of whom have hit me physically, or done other things harmful to themselves me or others in order to try and get what they wanted - I must say I would almost prefer a foreign woman.

    If I liked Japanese women, or Latinas and was willing to have my children raised Catholic, I must say I have more respect for the ethics of these women, than the homegrown variety, whose only dedication is to becoming a 'desperate housewife', or failing that distracting themselves with 'sex in the city' until they can become a 'desperate housewife'. Alas, I do not like Japanese or Latin women in this way.


    I come from an area that has increasing Asian and Latin immigrants, but is still 95% *white*, and there have been increasing cases of women murdering their husbands because they 'could not help themselves', their children because 'felt trapped and needed to be free', or their female friends over weird reasons of vicious female rivalry I cannot even fathom; the local news was dominated by it. Of course, all of these cases, the perpetrators had English, German, or Scandinavian surnames - the immigrant women and their testosterone did not seem the problem to me. In fact, the immigrants were doing right with regard to family issues, what other Americans seem to be doing wrong. Having an average of 4 children, and even if the husband was a minimum wage cook, the wife loved him and stayed with him, and the family money was spent on school and home for the children, rather than on divorce lawyers, and counselors for a broken family.

    *White* Americans are trending toward having 3 or more marriages, while trending toward less than 2 children per family - less than simple replacement, and increasing portions of their greater wealth is spent fighting the enemy spouse, or repairing the damage from a broken marriage, rather than on the family.

    In my opinion, our societies (in 'the West') need to either turn back the clock, so to speak with regard to women - or something similar to male honor, as has been mentioned above, must be instilled in girls from a young age, so they realize there are more important things than credit cards, fast cars, and whether they have more exciting lives than their female peers. One or the other, but staying halfway in-between things will continue to get worse.

    Freedom should enhance a value system, culture, and ethics, not serve as a replacement for them.
    Last edited by Todesritter; Saturday, June 18th, 2005 at 07:30 AM.

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