Zombie Nation - [Military] National Service

[NatRev]

I was thinking about National Service at work a few days ago and was speaking to a colleague about it, I am English and we no longer have it here, yet it is compulsory in most other European countries.

I have a German friend who is a consciences objector, (he is a good friend and although we differ on ideals, he is still a close friend) and he said he didn't want to be in the army so they got him working in an old age pensioners home which he said was quite good as he enjoyed chatting to the old boys.

Anyway, are you in favour of National Service?

Personally I think it would help reduce a large amount of crime as most youth crime is borne out of boredom, drugs and simple adolescent kicks. If the youth were shown a new direction, not necessarily a military one, maybe a combination of social service like helping to create a sense of belonging and self worth in the community as a whole, I think this would help restore a sense of much needed social pride and communal awareness.

I think possibly after the advent of ‘Rock & Roll’ the first social culture designed specifically for the youth, there has been a tremendous sense of both communalisation and alienation of youth and the creation of a ‘them’ and ‘us’ situation. I’m not knocking ‘youngsters’ or music, but I’m saying why can’t this sense of youth collectivism be used to better our society and get the drug dealers off our streets.

I spoke to one guy who told me about how Castro got all the kids to work in fields over the summer vacations, this wasn’t in the sense of ‘slave labour’ but by trying to help bolster a sense of community with the kids and also help the local economy too. In my opinion, who is more the man, the 15 year old lad who is working with his parents, brothers and other villagers to help their society or the pampered, spoiled western youth listening to Eminem on his CD walkman?

Besides, the social service will help increase confidence, help them develop social and vocational skills and help restore a sense of self worth.

Tour views are as always appreciated

[Scáthach]

i think a compulsory year in the army would be a great idea and of great benefit to young people,i guess myself included when it comes down to it!
i think it would foster a sense of teamwork,strength,bravery and hopefully leadership qualities also-aswell as a person being able to defend themselves adequately-an ability sorely needed the way the world is going. so,yes i think for the most part a year in service would be a good idea,or at the very least joining the reserve army. however,my father was in the army for most of his late teens and throughout his 20s,now he HATED it.vehemently.its not that hes not a strong or courageous individual but he saw it as being really a system based on class - ie the officers were middle to high class people and the lower down soldiers tended to be working class and they were treated awfully. some of this being treated badly could have been beneficial in strengthening up people in my opinion but it proved very divisive in my father's case-the soldiers hated the officers and everyone else of a higher rank than them because they looked down on them so much.
he says to this day that people who join the army tend to be stupid,or atleast the lower end of the intelligence spectrum - i think he fails to see why anyone could bear to receive orders all day long and be treated so badly. in his case,he went in voluntarily and hated it.it didnt help him in anyway BUT he didnt need any help-hes an intelligent,brave man anyway so thus maybe its the people who arent like that who would benefit from a year or two in service. even if all people did not benefit from it,i think it would be better to have them try it out and see whether or not it agrees with them-they could end up a better person after it,or they may not... ''It is better to live one day as a lion than one hundred years as a sheep'' afterall

[Grimr]

Wouldn't that type of thing lead to some kind of situation where the Z.O.G sends out a bunch of young white women and men to die for a country that hates them?

[Scáthach]

well,certainly not in my country.

[Borivoj]

I had to nearly join the army two years ago for the national draft, but I managed to get out of it and teach English for two years to kids. This was the last year of the draft, now you just have to do "public service" like repairing public buildings or doing work in hospitals or in the environment. My brother hated the army, the conditions were quite terrble and it was pointless because they did hardly any combat training anyway. I'm kind of guilty that I didn't have to do it, but I managed to become better at English which is a lot more useful then learning how to efficiently fill sandbags or pack supplies for real troops.

[Scáthach]

i suppose it really would only work for the benefit of some.

[NatRev]

Of course, improvements in the social structure are needed and I would say that anyone that didn't want to 'fight' shouldn't be forced to. Personally I'd have no problems with this but I'd like to think that the new 'Youth Movement' would be more about building bridges than blowing them up!

This may seem a bit hippy liberal but that's not the ideal I'm aiming at, I certainly believe that a greater sense of community and social development is better than being able to lock and load an AK47, besides, I don't think that militarism is the be all and end all of the youth program!

I agree with what you have said, Scathach, about the class structure, I feel this is something which must be confronted and eliminated, it has NO place in tomorrow's society.

A Meritocratic system: Yes! An Aristocratic one: No!

We can discuss the proletariat struggle until we are blue in the face but it shouldn’t be a ‘class struggle’ but a ‘social cooperative’ _ that means no toffee nosed public school boys can get out of this by their ‘pater’s’ bribing the system!

And indeed, Prospero, you are quite correct; I certainly wouldn't want any of my children to be ground up for jew gun fodder in any half baked economics war. Well said.

Your situation, Premisyl, interests me. It is all a question of SELF and SOCIAL development and worthiness. Sure, running around a field dressed as GI Joe is exciting and I think we'd all love to have a go at that and of course it is essential to be prepared for domestic violence for I think the Day is closer than we dare think; but you have helped others develop skills and personalities as well as your own, your knowledge and adeptness in English have been improved and so has that of the children you have worked with, personally I see this as a very rewarding task and hope that you enjoyed this situation.

It’d be interesting to see what ‘skills’ people would think are useful for the ‘Youth Movement’, I can a few to start the ball rolling;

Self defence (of course)

Teamwork exercises

Self confidence exercises _ personal skill development, music, art, literature etc…

Cultural awareness _very important in this modern McDonalds consumerist ‘culture’

Vocational development programs;
i.e., driving a car, basic domestic maintenance; (building, electronics, etc.)

Environmentalism as a Local, National and Global issue

The rights and responsibilities of a good citizen

Certainly some charitable work, (not AIDS… ugh!!!!) animals, kids, old folks etc…

Although I would say I am a Nationalist, I would also like to think that some form of Pan Europeanism would be integrated into the structure, something to help expand people perceptions of fellow Europeans and from this help foster a greater sense of pride in their own distinctive socio-cultures.

Personally I quite like sheep, they're very peaceful and passive creatures, I could sit and look at them for hours, it's a form of contemplation I guess, take me away from the writhing masses of (in)Humanity any day!!!

Baaaaaah!

[Borivoj]

Wouldn't it be possible to incorporate all these important life skills into grade school, rather then delaying university or trade school for a year or so?
"Self defence (of course)

Teamwork exercises

Self confidence exercises _ personal skill development, music, art, literature etc…

Cultural awareness _very important in this modern McDonalds consumerist ‘culture’

Vocational development programs;
i.e., driving a car, basic domestic maintenance; (building, electronics, etc.)

Environmentalism as a Local, National and Global issue

The rights and responsibilities of a good citizen

Certainly some charitable work, (not AIDS… ugh!!!!) animals, kids, old folks etc…"
Learning all of these things seem like a very good thing to learn, but they probably could be taught in secondary school or something like that. Anyway, I think it is really important that kids learn these things.

[Scáthach]

i think the idea of charity work is excellent,in a way i relate it to something i recently said about the character ethic needing to be rebuilt and strengthened in our people( see philosophy forum,aryan self sacrifice thread, i think it was if you want to know what im rambling about!lol)
Premisyl's point is very valid - nearly all of these skills should be incorporated into the education system,rather than the half baked ways schools use today eyes:
i still think a year in the army would mainly do more good than harm

[NatRev]

I take on board what you are saying and agree with you to an extent but schools only have a finite amount of resources and time. Certainly PART of what we propose can be inecorporated into mainstream education, however most 16-17 year old school leavers can't wait to get as far away from school life as possible.

It's not a case of divorcing the youth movement from education, it's more a case of setting it up as a link from school to employemnet or further education.

Ask an average 17 year old whether they'd like to do all this stuff in a school class room or in some youth hostel type thing in the middle of no-where and i bet you about 90% would opt for the out of school situation.

This is not to say that this is a 'jolly' and all good things are provided just for the sake of some Governmental quota, far from it, the program must be cost effective (some may say that if it provides an army of workers instead of spongers, it IS cost effective anyway) where the young are shown simple things such as how to grow their own food, mend their own clothes etc... this may all sound like simplistic stuff but seriously you would be surprised how many kids leave school with very poor reading skills and indeed social skills, and it's totally unfair to blame teachers for this, most kids with agressive and disruptive tendencies have some learning difficulty or other, (however not all kids with learning difficulties have behavioural problems).

I would say that the military service should be reserved for those mentally and physicaly competent for such a venture. I wouldn't feel all that safe with some baseball cap wearing youth carrying an AK47 around with him. Certainly not. I believe that rigorous psychological and intellectual tests must be passed before they're even shown a gun.