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Thread: On the Future of Eugenics in the Postgenomic World

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    Lightbulb On the Future of Eugenics in the Postgenomic World

    by Matt Nuenke (February 2005)


    There are two components to eugenics. One is the scientific, and it deals with genetic engineering and provides the tools for genetic selection. This "fact" is the easy part—it is pursued because it is pure science, there is money to be made, and people want to provide the very best genes for their children. The other component is the racialist factor or even religion if you will. For me at least, it is not fantasy nor is it utopian. It is simply the desire to see one's own race improving itself genetically to out-compete other races. For me, it is not enough for one's children to do well, for without the race one belongs to the children are left alone and isolated. My genes, my race's genes, are to me one and the same. We either collectively work to preserve those genes or they will be lost—wiped out by other competing races who wish us harm. That is a basic premise of evolution. Individuals, races, and species all compete for survival.

    […] Recently, Kevin MacDonald published three volumes on the group evolutionary strategies between Jews and gentiles, and show us how racial groups compete, while J. Philippe Rushton would explain how the races differ on numerous behavioral traits in Race, Evolution, and Behavior (1995). In 1996 Richard Lynn would publish Dysgenics, followed in 2001 with Eugenics, A Reassessment and in 2002 publish along with Tatu Vanhanen: IQ and the Wealth of Nations.

    Eugenics today is not the top down hierarchical movement of the past, where ideologues, philanthropists, and politicians drive the program. It is now a bottom up program where thousands of researchers in evolutionary behavior, behavior genetics, genetic engineering, computer sciences, ethology, cognitive neuroscience, and self-organizing systems that emerge from simple programs to complex societies, are all telling the story of eugenics, even though many of the researchers miss the connection between human behavior and directed evolutionary change. Just as humans tend to separate themselves naturally into communities based on race and social status, humans are equally going about the business of looking after their children, kin and race.

    […] For these reasons, eugenics today will probably be a rather leaderless movement, while it plays itself out in competition between individuals and races, at all levels and in a myriad of ways. It is also why the movement is less in need of leaders and more in need of resources to allow it to self-organize itself into racial breeding groups. Fundamentally then, eugenics for Whites is a matter of deprogramming ourselves from the false promises of socialism, Marxism, diversity and egalitarian dogmas. These moralizing gods have strangled our race into capitulating to the demands of other races for their benefit.

    I believe that racialists should not run away to isolated rural compounds, but rather stay in urban environments where wealth is easier to accumulate. Wealth is what will give us the means to set up our own schools, communities, and alternative ways of living, as well as providing for more children. I think this can be done right in the midst or our enemies with secure communities working together. Besides, there is nothing like a constant reminder of why we want to separate ourselves from other races to help us bind together into our own enclaves. Niche building is easier when there are resources and motivation.

    […] With regards to eugenics, the science no doubt will progress in about a decade to the point where we can identify the 10 or 20 genes that are responsible for intelligence. At that point, any couple with a few thousands dollars can have a dozen or so eggs harvested, fertilized, and tested for the intelligence genes, along with tests for any genetic diseases, and implant the most intelligent and disease free fertilized egg of the lot. This will advance selective breeding by ten fold or more. The really beautiful thing however is it will happen within a free market economy. Eugenics, without any help from advocates, will be advanced by the desire of parents for intelligent children and for a marketplace to deliver the services for a fee. Countries will try to stop it, but it will win out in the end as labs will just be set up off-shore and couples on vacation just happen to avail themselves of genetic engineering services while relaxing at the beach.

    […] A few months ago one of the leading eugenics advocates called for a meeting to discuss eugenics among those involved in the movement. There was no response however, and I think I know why. Eugenics is not the stand-alone program it was 100 years ago. Then, it was a program to "save us from decadency." Today, every eugenicist I know of is tied to what I can only describe as the empirical racialist right for lack of a better term. We are not one group but we are inserted within many other groups.

    Eugenics is not only feasible, it is in fact here, but it is denied. When welfare reform placed a five year limit on benefits, the welfare state was rolled back; When the No Child Left Behind program collects tests scores, we will be able to show how it is all in the genes; As we incarcerate more criminals we keep them from breeding; People are now going to labs to screen their fetuses for genetic diseases. All of these changes are eugenics without official imprimatur—but they eugenics none the less.


    There is no way to prove that a world filled with intelligent people will be a better world than one filled with stupid people. But all of the research seems to indicate that a highly intelligent nation could move towards direct democracy and more freedom.

    Aside from a long term vision, it is possible and preferable that any eugenics community that is based on racial separatism, shroud themselves in discretion, and establish themselves within a religious community. I am no legal expert on the separation of church and state, but a religious community seems like the best way to form a racial community without running into legal problems. Religious organizations have many tax and legal advantages, as well as being allowed to establish doctrine without state intervention. As long as the eugenic religious group does not provoke others, they should be able to go about practicing eugenics very effectively. I am somewhat disappointed that we have not been able to establish any eugenic groups as yet, but many are trying to promote the idea and get one formed, somewhere, somehow.


    My April, 2004 article entitled "Niche Construction as a Means to Eufenic Communities," taken from recent research, is probably the best I have to offer for mechanisms to racial formation of solidarity groups. In short, we all have to find others like us, make sure they are sincere and not joiners for short term goals, and keep the movement going. There has to be a certain number of people in a location to start the process, some organization, and IT HAS TO BE REWARDING. The reason we have so many “race traitors” is because humans want to be liked and they will buy into the latest social norms to be safe and feel like they are doing the right thing. […]

    The Internet is a great place to talk over ideas and contact people, but it is a difficult forum for sustaining a growing movement. However, a group of like-minded people, working together to build a life of racial separation, a goal of not just a community but making money to sustain and expand the group and to provide for things like home schooling, is all it really takes. But the most important part is an ability to eject disruptive members who do not put in the necessary effort to understand the complexities of human nature, or have egos that need to be fed by group members. It seems that charismatic leaders are often necessary but also dangerous. Don't become a cult, become a community that enjoys the process as well as the goal.

    […] In the short term we must use incentives that people feel are fair and equitable. I will never accept the premise that it is the women's "duty" to have more children for the benefit of the race. Men have to do their part in providing the conditions where the burden of children is equally shared between men and women. When the rewards of having children are greater than the burden, we will have more children.

    Genes don't act alone, but work on a planned development from the fetus to old age, where genes interact with the environment in making us what we are. Health of course is important, keeping children safe, free of disease, etc. But in addition, we must be very aware of the developmental stages that children go through, when to guide them, when to prod them, but more importantly when to leave them alone to learn at their own pace. Recent studies are showing that pushing children too hard does little to improve their progress in school, sports, music, what have you. However, it can increase anxiety. It can also push children into areas that they are not innately talented for. Most children find their own niches, so we must understand their developmental projectiles, and assist, not deter what they are good at and where they want to go as they grow.

    The old model, that children are empty vessels that we just pour knowledge and values into is being replaced with the model that they come into the world already equipped to learn language, social interaction, abstract reasoning, fairness, etc. An understanding of how the genes interact with the environment to mold the child is all important. It also has a great deal to do with how we keep our children attached to the value systems that are important, and this definitely has a great deal to do with how they behave and how it affects their health.

    The problem with value systems however is that children can take on one set of values while in the home, and another set of values from their friends, from school, etc. These different sets of values will change expression as they enter the home or go out with their friends. We need to learn a lot more about how we can influence our children's values, which areas of their behavior will be primarily genetically determined, and what areas are more flexible. For example, a massive thirteen year study of adolescents funded by NIMH, supported by five universities, showed that sociability and autonomy could be influenced by the home environment (see my web site for a review of The Relationship Code: Deciphering Genetic and Social Influences on Adolescent Development). We can beat the Left at their own game of relying only on the environment, but focusing our resources where they can alter for the better our children's future, while understanding where genes dominate. Our social and health care system today is not as effective as it could be because genes and genetic differences are more often than not totally ignored.

    The science however is moving at an incredible pace, and almost daily in the news you will hear something pertaining to eugenics, without the word being used of course. In areas like cloning, human engineering, health care based on racial differences, new genes being discovered, better screening for genetic disease, stem cell research—these are all part of eugenics. So to learn about eugenics, keep an open mind, and look at the data that is all around us as well as buried in academic books and research.

    If you are a dog lover and familiar with breeding, recent research has shown that breeds of dogs are exactly the same as human races. Almost all the genes are the same between breeds of dogs, but a few genes tweaked here and there by selection have allowed us to alter the temperament, looks, health, and intelligence of the different breeds. Dogs are a good model of what eugenics can do for those who love dogs. Humans and dogs coevolved together over the last 10,000 years, and recent research is showing that they have an astounding sense of our mental states, much more so than our closest relatives the chimpanzees. Gazing into your mutt's mind, he his gazing likewise back at yours. Wolves can't do that—we have bred our dogs to interact with us mentally just by being so closely bound with our pets for such a long period of time.



    Source: NeoEugenics


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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    I find alot of that extremely interesting...I'm actually looking for a political party in the USA that will make study and princliples of Eugenics part of its policies

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    Exclamation Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    Great article, I can agree with every important point made.
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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    I oppose Eugenics.

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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Taras Bulba
    I oppose Eugenics.
    There are no rational arguments against it. All arguments against it are based on the assumption of ill-conducting, which is something a good political system can prevent, or (pseudo-) religious and superstitious stances.
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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    There are no rational arguments against it.
    There are rational arguments against anything.

    All arguments against it are based on the assumption of ill-conducting, which is something a good political system can prevent, or (pseudo-) religious and superstitious stances.
    Many arguments against are based largely on morals and such; but I have read arguments against eugenics on the grounds that its theories are pseudo-scientific and do not correspond to what many geneticists have studied.

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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    Many arguments against are based largely on morals and such; but I have read arguments against eugenics on the grounds that its theories are pseudo-scientific and do not correspond to what many geneticists have studied.
    As I said: Ill conducting.
    If you just use sterilisation, the effect is not as sufficient to justify it probably, because there are many recessive defects and almost every individual has some, not to speak of new mutations. But the future will be different and primarily based on praenatal screening, selection and germline therapy.
    Now thats abou defects, which are obviously negative and only the border can be discussed, but if its about more desirable features out of the normal spectrum, things can be further discussed though there are, and will be in the future more, arguments for the proper use of methods to enhance the most important features for the future, for being versatile and survivable in as much conditions as possible. Those generalised features are definitely of importance and will be even more important with further technical progress.
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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    Well Im currently debating this topic with Ebusantius at Phora and I made this argument.
    http://www.phora.org/forum/showpost....4&postcount=64
    Because eugenics is based on the philosophy of genetic determinism. And like most forms of determinism, they overblow the role its features play in shaping the world. Marx thought economics made the world go round. While that's true to some extent, he overblew the case. Same thing with eugenics, they overblow the role genetics play in determining things and many scientists have admitted this.

    Also why on earth should a person's value be determined primarily by their genes?

    But oh well, I'll turn to the Catholic Encyclopedia to further outline my views(since I am arguing from a Catholic perspective):

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/16038b.htm

    The root difference between Catholic teaching and that of modern eugenics is that the one places the final end of man in eternal life, whilst the other places it in civic worth. The effectual difference is that the Church makes bodily and mental culture subservient to morality, whilst modern eugenics makes morality subservient to bodily and mental culture....In dealing with racial poisons, the Church provides the most radical remedies. Against alcohol she sets the virtue of temperance, against white-lead the virtue of justice, against venereal disease the virtue of purity. She provides for proper selection in marriage by setting impediments against unworthy marriages. The spirit life of the married pair and of the children is protected by the prohibition of mixed marriages.


    Ergo, one does not need to be in favor of eugenics in order to be in favor of bettering one's race. A race's quality is not determined by its genes, but by the virtues it chooses to upholds. If it upholds righteous virtues, it will prosper. If it doesn't uphold righteous virtues, well it fails to get anywhere. We're clearly seeing this with modern society, which upholds the most barbarian of virtues(if you can call them that). I sincerly doubt you can blame social decline largely on genetics.

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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    The quality of a population is defined by its genes, the quality of a folk can be the biological quality of the population and that of the culture. Just because you see the importance of genetic features, you dont deny other qualities.

    If you search for the goal of humans in "another world" and not in the reality of our existence, you could argue that you dont have to care about anything, could live alone for you your holy life and seeing how they people around you and the world gets degraded, nothing I would recommend, in fact its an opinion which is against life. You dont know whats afterlife, but no matter how or what it is, if caring about this world which is for sure, you have to consider the quality of genes.
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    Post Re: The Eugenics Challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Just because you see the importance of genetic features, you dont deny other qualities.
    Please tell me where I denied that genetics had a role? What I am claiming is that eugenics overblows the case. Even as my source claimed, its a question of which element serves the other.

    If you search for the goal of humans in "another world" and not in the reality of our existence, you could argue that you dont have to care about anything, could live alone for you your holy life and seeing how they people around you and the world gets degraded, nothing I would recommend, in fact its an opinion which is against life. You dont know whats afterlife, but no matter how or what it is, if caring about this world which is for sure, you have to consider the quality of genes.
    I hope you notice the obvious irony in your statement, since societies more preoccupied with "another world" do more to serve their fellow man than those more preoccupied with this one. Why? Well they may have to pay price for their narcissism. Need we forget that even those within Christianity who choose solitude(ie monks) nevertheless did so for the good of others. In fact they used solitude to gain inner strength to deal with the world at large. This certainly was the practice of St. Francis.

    But if you're largely concerned about this world, why bother with other people? You only have this world and you're not answerable to God(so the theory go). You're only answerable to yourself basically, not to others.

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