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Thread: Lucifer as Liberator/ Some More Thoughts

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    Post Anarch

    I'll give you the chapter on Magian Soul and its description after a few days, when I have a scanner.

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    Ohh, west never was Magian, Magian was semitic or is semitic spirit, the Islamic, the jewish and the Parsee.

    Western Gothic has a lot which connects it with Vedic. It has had much in common even if not common origins. That is why I feel spiritually close to Nordic-Celtic-Viking-European, that explains much of it. To me at least. It is nothing else, not teh wealth fo Europe, not the imperial successes nor even its modern or late modern becoming.

    Spengler even calls the Vedic people with their gods and ways as "Land Vikings," in the Decline.

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    Ok, thanks for that. You said the Magian was the semetic spirit, which I can only partly agree with you on - the origins of the Magian is in the Iranian (Aryan) culture, isn't it? I need to learn a lot more about Vedic civilization, does Spengler go over this in Decline?

    You've also mentioned before the Faustian emerged with the collapse of Western Christianity, and that the Faustian is a later stage of West Aryan development, what would you term the earlier stage (during Christianity's highest degree of power, particularly through Catholicism) of the West?
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Ironically, the Magis were an Indian tribe, they were not the kind which we have today in the Magian spirit. This is the Irony of it all.

    The Aramaic blood(Semitic), borrowed ideas from the Invading Aryan Magi, Magi is probably derived of Maghavan or a gift. They were the original people from whom the Semitic Arameans borrowed and later developed their conceptions. The semitic is completely oblivious to the Vedic Aryan spirit. In my eyes, it messed up and we have variously expressed semitic religiousity in all these 'Magian' religions/creeds.

    Magian, thus, is an irony. And neither Vedic can ever become Magian or vice versa.

    Seeing Magian as the proto-type for the Gothic is a misnderstanding. I am sorry for keeping the most important parts from you and others here. But I'll get them very soon.

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    Post Here is something by Spengler.

    And quite unsurprisingly, Prof Witzel of Harward, if one point from his dserves any significant an sympathetic view is that he discards Semitic influences as thoroughly unnatural and inorganic, upon the European culture, but something which cannot be completely rid off.


    Here is Great Oswald.
    On Distinctness of Cultures and Spirits
    There are as many morales as there are Cultures, no more and no fewer. Just as every painter and every musician has something in him which, by force of inward necessity, never emerges into consciousness but dominates a priori the form-language of his work and differentiates that work from the work of every other Culture, so every conception of Life held by a Culture-man possesses a priori (in the very strictest Kantian sense of the phrase) a constitution that is deeper than all momentary judgments and strivings and impresses the style of these with the hall-mark of the particular Culture. The individual may act morally or immorally, may do .. good" or .. evil" with respect to the primary feeling of his Culture, but the theory of his actions is not a result but a datum. Each Culture possesses its own standards, the validity of which begins and ends with it. There is no general morale of humanity.

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    Post This Is Another Spenglerian Excerpt

    While for the European American, democracy, constitutional struggles and revolutions mean an evolution towards the Civilized Ideal, for him they mean(as if he never consciously realizes) the breaking down of other build that is other than himself. Even when the force of consensus in him is broken and the life of his host people exercises an attraction upon himto the point of an induced patriotism, yet the party that supports is always that of which aims are most nearly comparable with the Magian essence. Hence in Germany he is a Democrat and in England an Imperialist. It is exactly the same misunderstanding, as when West Europeans regard Young Turks and Chinese Reformers as kindred spirits-that is, as, "Constitutionalists." If there is an inward relationship, a man affirms even where he destroys; if inward alienness, his effect is negative even where his desire is to be constructive. What the Western Culture has destroyed, by reform efforts of its own type where it has had power, hardly bears thinking of; and Jewry has been equally destructive where it has intervened. The sense of this inevitableness of this reciprocal misunderstanding leads to the appalling hatred that settles deep in the blood and, fastening upon visible marks like race, mode of life, profession, speech, leads both sides to waste, ruin and bloody excesses wherever these conditions occur.

    To this day, the magian nation with its ghetto and its religion, itself is in danger of disappearing-not because the metaphysics of the two cultures come closer to one another(for that is impossible), but because the intellectualised upper stratum of each side is ceasing to be metaphysical at all. It has lost every kind of inward cohesion, and what remains is simply a cohesion for practical questions. the lead that this nation has enjoyed from its long habituation to thinking in business terms becomes ever less and less(namely tha American, it has already almost gone), and with the loss of it will go the last potent means of keeping up a consensus that has fallen regionally into parts. In the moment when the civilised method of European-American world-cities chall have arrived at full maturity, the destiny of jewry-at least of the jewry in our midst(that of Russia is another problem)-will be accomplished.

    ---
    My Observations:
    And he concludes this chapter by comparing the rootedness of the Magian jew with the Magian Moslem and Magian Parsee in India, the latter two of which are firmly planted in the soil of their respective lands. The Moslem adopts the culture of whatever place he dwells in(Note that modern Magian moslem in the West is actually facing crises akin to the Magian Jew, and its outward puritanism only seeks to destroy all that is unlike itself, by becoming the fastest growing religion in the world). This spirit is not much different from the Magian Jew, as has already been described, in Spenglerian wording. Speaking of the Parsee, it is able to survive in India because(although the India Culture soul is vastly different from the Magian) of stiffened forms or spirituality and metaphysics in Bharat allow his Magian essence to live within it, until there are convulsions there as well.

    Then talking of Bharat, although Buddhism distorted its heritage's expression almost to the point of the pseudomorphosis, which is the hallmark of the Magian Jewish, Islamic & Parsee essence, it never touched that essence.

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    A few questions:

    Infinite Space, being the essence of Faustian Western Culture, the Plain, being the symbol of Russian Culture, Divine Grace being the meaning of Magian Culture, what is the spirit of Vedic civilization, as you believe (I don't know anything about it, and until I learn something I think its best I do not hold an opinion) it is similar to the Gothic origins of the West?

    How is a Cultural Spirit created? (possibly too big a question to ask, but...)
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    The Vedic is feudal nobility, according to Spengler's view of it.

    In my opinion, along with it, Vedic was a culture. It wasn't a civilisation. In that I stand in agreement with Spengler. To distinguish between the town and the world-cities will be to distinguish between Culture and Civilisation.

    Vedic spirit was charged and attacked by a dialectic, its natural 'grand' movement was somewhat thwarted and thought pre-empted by the Buddhist. He describes Buddhism as utter cowardice in the face of life. Good, I have heard someone speak the same of Buddhism from early 19th century India.

    Buddhism destroyed that Vedic Bharat.

    Indian Buddhism and the decadence of Modern Post-Modern West is alike. It is a cowardice in the face of a life truly worth the living or dying for.

    This all will not be met by any more talk or speech rhetoric. We must not speak and frame sentences to explain it. What do we feel inside?
    What anger? What revulsion? What a loss?

    Words are simply not enough to express the feeling.

    This, I feel, is probably what Spengler is trying to speak of.

    All this, when the middle eastern semitic Aramaic spirit is wtill mired in its elohied wallow. It can not, it will never rise above its dualism and sentimentalist yearning for the elohe, which is far from divine, since 'divine' is an IE(Aryan) word.

    Dualism is wholly semitic aramaic. Thankfully even Spengler agrees to this.

    Spengler speaks of all cultures as alike, but the underlying spirit is different.

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    Very helpful

    Thanks for that Rahul, I think I've got to get my hands on a copy of the Rig Veda soon. Your explanation was simple, but thanks for clearing that up. I thought the expression of the Vedic culture was the essentially Pantheism (I know that's a rough way of viewing Brahma, but I can't think of another word for it), but in hindsight, after learning what you have just said, it makes more sense. Sorry for mentioning "vedic civilization", I should've said Culture as I knew better (mistake), I've read the abriged version of Decline of the West, though I must say, from the small part you sent me on Ethical Socialism the abriged version certainly does not do the full book justice. Once again, thanks.

    Btw, what do you think of the Lucifer idea?
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post Powerful...

    Spengler seems to have brought out a powerful eloquence and a sharp clarity in your expression, Rahul.

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