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Thread: Nordics, Western and Eastern Mediterraneans, and the Neolithic Transition in W. Europe and NW Africa

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    Question Nordics, Western and Eastern Mediterraneans, and the Neolithic Transition in W. Europe and NW Africa

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Very small, but yes, I think so.

    I think this map gives a good general impression of South America, thought the situation is of course much more complex in detail:
    Ok, so most of the europid are on the eastern and southern areas of south america.

    I also noticed in northern Africa and in the Middle East, it classifies those people as Europids. Does that mean we are related to Arabs, Indians, Egyptions ect.?

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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Europid = Caucasoid in the German terminology. And finally we are related to chimps and even flies or worms in way, since we are all lifeforms, the question is just which grade relation, of kinship we have.

    If its about other, non-European Europids/Caucasoids, they are much closer to us Europeans than non-Europids.

    Lets say it that way (with absolutely wrong and hypothetical numbers) the difference between a Northern and Southern European is ~2, then between a Northern European and Arab (without non-Europid admixture, lets say Orientalid type) ~4, to a Mongolid ~10, a pure Negrid ~20 etc.

    So its all a question of your perspective. Compared to a Negrid they are much nearer, thats clear.
    Not only genetically but also morphologically, in phenotype they resemble Europeans much more and are of the same race (not subrace obviously).
    On the other hand compared to differences inside of Europe, the difference is significantly greater to non-Europeans in almost all normal cases, especially from the genetic perspective. (there are small exceptions)
    Ok, thank you, but would an Osteuropide (Eastern Europide) be more related to the Nordid Branch than others? Is there some sort of hiarchy of relations?

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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Not only genetically but also morphologically, in phenotype they resemble Europeans much more and are of the same race (not subrace obviously).

    On the other hand compared to differences inside of Europe, the difference is significantly greater to non-Europeans in almost all normal cases, especially from the genetic perspective. (there are small exceptions)
    I disagree, because North Africans are physically close to Iberians and are therefore West Mediterraneans, and because West Asian types are related to types found in Europe. These western and eastern Mediterranean populations do blend, especially in the "dinaricised Mediterraneans" of Italy, but because certain features of West Asians appear to be independant of similar features in the Baskids, further to the west the evidence of West Asian admixture seems to be less certain.

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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaknave
    Ok, thank you, but would an Osteuropide (Eastern Europide) be more related to the Nordid Branch than others? Is there some sort of hiarchy of relations?
    Of course there is such a hierarchy, but as you can see, many details are open to discussions...

    I disagree, because North Africans are physically close to Iberians and are therefore West Mediterraneans, and because West Asian types are related to types found in Europe. These western and eastern Mediterranean populations do blend, especially in the "dinaricised Mediterraneans" of Italy, but because certain features of West Asians appear to be independant of similar features in the Baskids, further to the west the evidence of West Asian admixture seems to be less certain.
    I thought about similar questions too, thats why I spoke about exceptions.

    If you consider both, genes and physical anthropology the border is fluent but visible and relatively clear for the greater part of the European populations.

    A typical Gracilmediterranid of SW Europe is morphologically closer related to a Mediterranid of North Africa than to a European Alpinoid, yes.
    And whereas pure Mediterranids of the typical European source of business are widespread in Europe, the North African variants aren't, and the European variant is in a pure form not very widespread in North Africa of course.

    But there are common European features too and genetically Europeans can be distinguished from North Africans, generally speaking.
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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    This is kind of getting off topic, but are the eastern Europids more related to Nordids, than say the pure Meds? By finding who is closest is relation, couldnt you make a sub-racial hiarchy? I guess if no one has done this, I'll have to.

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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaknave
    This is kind of getting off topic, but are the eastern Europids more related to Nordids, than say the pure Meds? By finding who is closest is relation, couldnt you make a sub-racial hiarchy? I guess if no one has done this, I'll have to.
    To make a phylogeny of types would involve making a phenogram of the relationships between relatively unmixed Caucasoid populations with different types.
    Last edited by morfrain_encilgar; Saturday, March 19th, 2005 at 10:40 PM.

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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Quote Originally Posted by alphaknave
    This is kind of getting off topic, but are the eastern Europids more related to Nordids, than say the pure Meds? By finding who is closest is relation, couldnt you make a sub-racial hiarchy? I guess if no one has done this, I'll have to.
    It has been done all over again, but even the same scientist sometimes changed his opinion about this issue.

    F.e. morphologically and if its about certain genetic features Nordids are much closer to Mediterranids, Atlantomediterranids in particular, than Osteuropids.

    If its about pigmentation and certain other genetic features, Osteuropids are closer to Nordids.

    So its no question that easy to answer.

    Of course Skandonordids have with Mediterranids (especially Atlantomediterranids) very much features in common.
    Even the Nordid type himself is different from region to region (f.e. North Western Europe to Eastern Europe).
    So genetically NW ones are much closer to Atlantomediterranids (obviously), whereas you cant say the same with that certainty about Eastern Nordids. (compare what is written on this board about R1a and R1b.

    Map:
    http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...chmentid=31200

    Furthermore Southern Europeans might have admixture from non-European Europids and slight Negroid one, but Eastern Europeans have some non-European Europid admixture too (f.e. Armenid) and Mongolid one on a low level.

    http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...chmentid=30919
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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Ok, thank you, I have another question related. Keltic and Nordid closely related? I have always thought of Keltic as Scotland, Ireland, and maybe France because of the Gauls occupation during the Roman Era. Nordic people I have usually thought of as mainly the Scandinavian area, Denmark, and possibly England from Angelo-Saxon invasion.

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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Nordic countries is something geographic-cultural, but the Nordic/Nordid subrace is something biological and neither bound to one ethnicity alone nor an exclusive region.

    Everybody who has the physical and genetical features of the type is Nordid, no matter where he is from or from which region he's coming from.

    Therefore even the ancient Celts were to a large extend Nordid subracially.

    You probably confused the terms "Keltic Nordic" which is a subtype of Nordic for the Coon inspired terminology and Celtic for the ethnic-historic entity.
    Thats why German anthropologist and most modern ones used the suffix -id (~"as") and -oid (~"similar") if its about racial matters, to prevent such misunderstandings.

    "Keltic Nordic" people can be in many regions as well, and usually people of the Nordid type with a certain amount of Atlantid/Dinarid admixture are considered being "Keltic" imo.
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    Post Re: What are Mexicans and the South Amercians?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Nordic countries is something geographic-cultural, but the Nordic/Nordid subrace is something biological and neither bound to one ethnicity alone nor an exclusive region.

    Everybody who has the physical and genetical features of the type is Nordid, no matter where he is from or from which region he's coming from.

    Therefore even the ancient Celts were to a large extend Nordid subracially.

    You probably confused the terms "Keltic Nordic" which is a subtype of Nordic for the Coon inspired terminology and Celtic for the ethnic-historic entity.
    Thats why German anthropologist and most modern ones used the suffix -id (~"as") and -oid (~"similar") if its about racial matters, to prevent such misunderstandings.

    "Keltic Nordic" people can be in many regions as well, and usually people of the Nordid type with a certain amount of Atlantid/Dinarid admixture are considered being "Keltic" imo.
    Agrippa, could you please specify what is an Atlanto-Mediterranid and on what it differs from Mediterranid? Is it a sub-racial type of the Mediterranid? I have been reading that term a lot in here, though I never understood to what is it related and its real meaning. Thanks in advance.

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