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Thread: Greatest Empires

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    Post Greatest Empires

    Greatest empires carachterized by a strong germanic influence. My idea is to present a series of historical statal realities created or determinantly influenced by germanic culture or ethnic strain. A sort of story of Germanic (in the wider sense) national aggregations from the origins to now. I'll begin soon to post a series of Historic charts and data

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Tiger
    Greatest empires carachterized by a strong germanic influence. My idea is to present a series of historical statal realities created or determinantly influenced by germanic culture or ethnic strain. A sort of story of Germanic (in the wider sense) national aggregations from the origins to now. I'll begin soon to post a series of Historic charts and data
    The Frankish would be the most obvious place to start, as well as the Mercians and the Kingdom of Wessex (later England), and Canute's kingdom.

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Very well. From this moment, in every post i'll do on this thread, i'll describe a different "moment" of ethnic-state GERMANIC develpment through the centuries.

    1 - ANCESTRAL BEGIN

    During the centuries of Roman Empire, Roman Emperors had an ONLY REAL enemy : GERMANIC populations. Of course, in this age we can't speak of a real state aggregate : germanic tribes constituted a variegated reality carachterized by the absence of ANY form of organization, except the most basilars (family, Clan, Hord etc.). Although this absence of organization, they played a fundamental role during the Roman Empire : they were feared by every Roman Emperor since the times of SILLA , like the most dangerous enemy Roman Empire never had. An obscure, indistinct entity without a single king, without a clear form of government, without a neither a single name (there were ,probably, more than 300 tribes, counting groups an sub-groups), though carachterized by a formidable capability of resistance : an invincible, chaotic, ungovernable strenght immersed in the boundless forests of north-europe. An anarchic ideal of power, like writer Tacitus wrote. Several Roman Emperors, sent, every year, delegations and presents to the most powerfull germanic chiefs to guarantee their neutrality, or their help. In conclusion, we can't see, objectively, a nation, rather a powerfull embryonic nucleus. An anonymous ethnic mass. But an anonimous mass more dangerous than ANY organized state in that age. Probably, Roman Emperors, considered Germanic tribes, like a "virtual" Empire". MOST IMPORTANT, the ONLY ethnic-cultural force on European continent capable to resist to imperial expansion. EVERY roman legion transitating on "Rhine line" had the terror of the word "Germanic". Was synonimous of massacre, then.

    Te borders were very vague, although the territory occupied by Germanic entity is less or more equivalent to these actual nations : Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Poland, Czech-Slovakia, Hungary, and western Belarus. In total, about a 1'000'000 of km(2). Demographic consistence is, today, estimed in 3,5- 4 millions at time of julius Cesar (50 B.C.), but about 20 millions, 250 years later. The CRITIC line, was the RHINE ; CESAR, during his campaigns, conquested mostly the western part of Europe (actual SPAIN, FRANCE, BRITISH ISLES), though he didn't cross the RHINE. The conquest of germanic territory was left to the subsequent Roman commanders generation. On the "mithic" line of Rhine were fought the bloodiest battles of all European ancient history (in terms of deaths, those battles were much more bloody than Hellenic/Persian empire wars). I could cite several bettles, but only one was really determinant for the ethnic-cultural doom of our continent. TEUTOBURGO (Teutobourg forest). In 14 A.D. the Emperor Octavianus Augustus, decided to complete the conquest of north-europe; a big expedition was organized, with a double objective : beating Germanic tribes and, in the same time, to colonize their territory. A decisive victory on the way of the total conquest of ALL Europe. In synthesis, were sent 6 of the best legions (over 35'000 men. a big number for the time) plus a civilian pop. of 30'000 people (to colonize the conquested territories) ; about the 15% of imperial military power. Although the expedition had a tragic end for the Romans : without the most basilar knowledge of territory, and without any communication with external world, was completely surrounded in Teutobourg Forest, by a Germanic army, formed by a federation of tribes. He lost ALL his legions durin the "siege" and committed suicide. This military disaster, left an atavic fear in Roman Empire, whom never more attempted to conquest anything over the Rhine. That river, became in subsequent centuries a line between life and death. and in subsequent millennia, the historic bord between Neo-latin and Celtic civilization and Germanic world. Two different worlds divided by a subtle geographic line.

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    The Celtic clans really didn't resist because they didn't all try. By the late La Tene there were more clans which looked to Rome rather than looked away. I guess we can assume that those clans which were predominatly Alpinid and Dinarid felt relatively closer to Rome than others, because the Roman patricians were of course mostly Dinarid and Alpinid themselves.

    So who is going to come along and challenge the Dinarid and Alpinid composition of the Roman patricians? A gracile-Nordid perhaps?

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Tiger
    Greatest empires carachterized by a strong germanic influence. My idea is to present a series of historical statal realities created or determinantly influenced by germanic culture or ethnic strain. A sort of story of Germanic (in the wider sense) national aggregations from the origins to now. I'll begin soon to post a series of Historic charts and data
    No offense, but it sounds awfully similar to March of the Titans.

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus Excelsior
    No offense, but it sounds awfully similar to March of the Titans.
    Why do you say that? I dont agree.

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus Excelsior
    No offense, but it sounds awfully similar to March of the Titans.
    Perhaps you've misinterpreted a bit, the real meaning of my initiative. I consider the word "GERMANIC" to be a CULTURAL concept and absolutely NOT sub racial .The same actual GERMANY /AUSTRIA has a very large proportion of DINARID- ALPINE population (the relative majority in south germany and Austria). My intention, is to show the objective influence of Germanic culture in major state formations of our continent. O.K. perhaps the title is a bit similar to Kemp's rethoric...............

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Tiger
    Perhaps you've misinterpreted a bit, the real meaning of my initiative. I consider the word "GERMANIC" to be a CULTURAL concept and absolutely NOT sub racial .The same actual GERMANY /AUSTRIA has a very large proportion of DINARID- ALPINE population (the relative majority in south germany and Austria). My intention, is to show the objective influence of Germanic culture in major state formations of our continent. O.K. perhaps the title is a bit similar to Kemp's rethoric...............
    Perhaps. Either way, I wish you the best of luck on your project.

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    The Swedish Empire during the Carolinian period was very Germanic, and encouraging. Good kings, brave soldiers, and so on.

    There is a thread on it here:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=31267

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    Post Re: Greatest Empires .............

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett
    The Celtic clans really didn't resist because they didn't all try.
    Actually, the Celts kicked the Roman's collective ass for much of the early period of Rome. They won battle after battle as Rome was powerless to resist the Celtic advance into Italy. Cities such as milan were originally Celtic settlements. The Celts eventually sacked Rome and only left after a huge bribe was paid to them. It took Rome over 50 years to recover and over a century to extact revenge for it. The Romans changed tactics and became more disciplined as a result and eventually effected a massive slaughter on the Celts, casualties and deaths estimated in millions.

    This was fortunate for the Germanic tribes to the north-east however, as this weakend the Celts enough to allow them to start moving west and occupying former Celtic land. So you could say that the Germanics rose to the prominence they did thanks to Rome

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