The Brunn Race

[Milesian]

From what little I've learned so far, it seems that Brunn is very prevalent in Ireland. Am I wrong in thinking that they were originally from eastern Europe and the Steppes? If so how did they become so prevalent in the western Atlantic fringe? I assume they arrived after the Atlantid types. Did they mingle with the Celts and arrive with them or did the arrive at another point in time?

[Loki]

Originally posted by Milesian
From what little I've learned so far, it seems that Brunn is very prevalent in Ireland. Am I wrong in thinking that they were originally from eastern Europe and the Steppes? If so how did they become so prevalent in the western Atlantic fringe? I assume they arrived after the Atlantid types. Did they mingle with the Celts and arrive with them or did the arrive at another point in time?

Hello Milesian,

Actually, the Irish Brünn's origin can be traced to long before the arrival of the so-called "Atlantid" and Celtic types. The Brünns were among the first residents in those parts. Brünns are derived from Upper Paleolithic cultures - refer to this map. For more information on Brünns, click here.

Regards,

Loki

[Loki]

For a detailed discussion on Ireland's anthropological history and racial composition, click here. This is from Carleton Coon's Races of Europe, and should answer a lot of your questions.

[Milesian]

Thanks Loki, I really appreciate those links. I think I've got a better understanding now.

My only problem is that the people who rated my picture on this site both agreed that I was predominately Brunn.
However, I also read from your links that Brunn were tall and well built. However, apart from a fairly thick neck, my build is slight - average and I'm only 5' 8".

Is there room for variation within the sub-race?
Could it be to do with a mix of something else?
It was suggested that there may be a mix of Keltic Nordic or possible Med as well. Could those be the reasons?

In Irish legend (which I always feel has more than a grain of truth, backed up by what I'm discovering now about sub-races), they speak of an early group of people called the "Fir Bolg" who were said to be a small, dark (I assume they mean hair and eye colouring) people. I always assumed that I was most like them in appearance. Could these be Atlantid types, which may be mixed with my Brunn and cause my short stature and slight build? :

[Tore]

Culturally, the Brunns are Celts, as the term Celtic generally pertains to the indigenous peoples of Britain (Picts), who were of Upper Paleolithic derivation.

The popular usage of Celtic is not in reference to the anthropological type known as Keltic Nordic, with exception to the Franks in the Benelux and France, as well as the Helvetia in Switzerland, as the Keltic type found in these regions is linked to culture deemed celtic, whereas in the British Isles this relationship is not present. The regional disparity that exists suggests that the Keltic Nordic type may not be singular in its composition, and in fact a composite of numerous phenotypes.

[Milesian]

That's interesting Tronder. So you reckon that the Picts may have been Brunn?

If that's so then these Fir Bolg may have been Brunn (if they equate to the Picts). However, the difference in stature seems unresolved as Brunns seem to be described as tall, whereas myself (and the Fir Bolg) appear to be quite short in stature.

Stll, that is something for me to think about.

[Loki]

Originally posted by Milesian
My only problem is that the people who rated my picture on this site both agreed that I was predominately Brunn.
However, I also read from your links that Brunn were tall and well built. However, apart from a fairly thick neck, my build is slight - average and I'm only 5' 8".

Actually, you are well within the Irish average stature at 5' 8". Brunns were tall, but not very tall. Have a look at the stature map of Europe:

Is there room for variation within the sub-race?
Could it be to do with a mix of something else?
It was suggested that there may be a mix of Keltic Nordic or possible Med as well. Could those be the reasons?

Yes to all. Certainly there is variation, even within subraces. Also, admixtures surely have a role to play, too. KN and Western Mediterranean admixtures are very possible, considering Ireland's racial and ethnic history. The historical maps I have posted should help explain. I am not finished with them yet, though.

[Vojvoda]

Loki, Do you think that the map you attached seems a bit outdated? I am 188cm.

[Loki]

Originally posted by providenje
Loki, Do you think that the map you attached seems a bit outdated? I am 188cm.

Indeed, I have heard that average statures have been on the increase over the past century or so. However, I do not have such a map with recent figures. I doubt whether it would be significantly higher. Perhaps a cm or two... We are talking about averages here.

[Stríbog]

as the term Celtic generally pertains to the indigenous peoples of Britain (Picts), who were of Upper Paleolithic derivation.

That's not true, the Celts arrived in the British Isles relatively recently. They were Continentals from France, Spain, southern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, etc. Celtic is an Indo-European language. The Picts were much darker (Mediterranean) and spoke a non-IE language. They had been in the British Isles before the Celts and were killed off by the invading Celts to some extent (look up Kenneth MacAlpin).