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Thread: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

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    Post Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Morphing can be a good way to illustrate the reduction process as an hypothesis for the current diversity of northern european phenotypes without involving any genetic change.

    Let's take an extreme unreduced UP, for example the "Dalo-fälish" man from Ilse Schwidetzky's collection. Then put it in the grid provided by Corel Draw 9.0. An then morph according to fantasy.

    - When reducing laterally the whole face we obtain something close to the classic nordic type. This is the gracilisation process.

    - When reducing laterally only the lower part of the face we obtain the east baltic type.

    - When reducing vertically the upper part of the east baltic type, we obtain the ladogan type.

    - When reducing vertically the lower part of the east baltic type, we obtain something close to the French Alpine type. This is the alpinisation process.

    Of course, this does not explain the partial change in pigmentation which occurs among alpins and ladogans. For that point, a second factor may be invoked. Either secondary selection or crossings with mediteraneans.

    Subject to discussion
    "Within a century, Europe might become a myth, like the Atlandid of Plato. Some historians will probably doubt that it ever existed" (Pseudo Schoppenhauer Complete SMS Collection, part I)

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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    I'm looking for a portrait of a living Oberkassel like woman, preferably taken from front and black and white. I haven't found so far any convincing one on the net (model agencies definitely prefer halstat or atlantic !).

    I would like to try the same morphing exercise on female portraits. I am fairly convinced that mating selection is most responsible for alpinisation or gracilisation of UPs. Since women are more chosen by men on their physical appearance, I think that doing the same exercise on women would be more convincing.

    If you have any such portrait in your data base, do not hesitate to send it to me. The same, if you have portraits of paleolitic mediterraneans, male or female, or other races.
    "Within a century, Europe might become a myth, like the Atlandid of Plato. Some historians will probably doubt that it ever existed" (Pseudo Schoppenhauer Complete SMS Collection, part I)

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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    I don't see anything scientific about this type of imaging.

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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Interesting project.

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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Quote Originally Posted by cruhmann
    I don't see anything scientific about this type of imaging.
    Well Cruh, I am not trying a scientific experiment here. I am just trying to illustrate with pedagogic tools an hypothesis on the current variation among north and central Europeans. This hypothesis has already been partially verified by the recent discovery that more than 80% of the Europeans belong to the same gene stock, presumably of UP origin, despite the fact that they are so different in body proportions.



    The next phase for me will be to show you that despite this physical variability, there are some patterns which remain broadly unchanged over the time ... these are the soft tissues, nose form, eyes form, lips, colour, etc.
    "Within a century, Europe might become a myth, like the Atlandid of Plato. Some historians will probably doubt that it ever existed" (Pseudo Schoppenhauer Complete SMS Collection, part I)

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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Interesting try. Not perfect but worth to look at it, since I see the European subraces as representatives of evolutionary strategies, tendencies.
    The process was accelerated and partly just caused by the Neolithic revolution and the associated new way of living.

    Imo its crucial to see both the Alpinisation and Baltisation as almost the same process, but in groups with a different background. Therefore the Alpinoid-Baltid differences seem to be to me rather the result of a different anatomical-genetical base at the starting point of brachycephalisation and reduction.
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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Quote Originally Posted by catchmeifyoukhan
    I'm looking for a portrait of a living Oberkassel like woman, preferably taken from front and black and white. I haven't found so far any convincing one on the net (model agencies definitely prefer halstat or atlantic !).

    I would like to try the same morphing exercise on female portraits. I am fairly convinced that mating selection is most responsible for alpinisation or gracilisation of UPs. Since women are more chosen by men on their physical appearance, I think that doing the same exercise on women would be more convincing.

    If you have any such portrait in your data base, do not hesitate to send it to me. The same, if you have portraits of paleolitic mediterraneans, male or female, or other races.
    It was typical that types like Oberkassel often had stronger sexual dimorphism, so the females are always not so typical.
    Sexual selection might have played a role, since many males prefer rather gracile women, especially if they dont look at their "working qualities" too much.
    But how important sexual selection for this process was is hard to determine. I personally think not too important but relevant.

    If you want to find Cromagnid-Dalofaelid women, just look for some stars of Baywatch or American actors...

    Courtney Thorne-Smith is a typical Cromagnid imo:




    One "Faelisch" from Günther with Nordid and one (after Günther) fully "Faelisch" woman.
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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Wow, this could be the start of something, I look forward to the end results!

    Your hypothesis seems to hold water, keep up the good work!
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    Post Re: Using morphing to show reduction process from unreduced UPs

    Thank you Agrippa. The falish woman from Gunther fits perfectly. She is cro-magnoid, and furthermore, the least that one can say, is that she is not very attractive (on the contrary to the first model). Let's suppose that you are the male of Oberkassel, and that during the neolithic, you have been "aculturised" by mediterranean standards of beauty. You're looking at your UP female ... and definitely, she is very remote from that ... You are telling to yourself ... "if ever, her face could be a bit thinner, like the mediterranean girls" ... and, after a few dozens generations of internal selection, Oberkassel man produced the nordic type ... the same for the alpinisation process : "if ever, her jaws could be a bit less masculine ...", etc.

    I agree with you that the results concerning what I assumed could be East baltic and ladogan are not totally convincing. For the man as for the woman, the result is a bit forced, especially as regards the forehead which do not looks really east-european. May be we should reckon, as you suggest, on the influence of a second type, which could have evolved in paralel ways.

    Do you have an idea of what could be such a type ?
    Last edited by catchmeifyoukhan; Wednesday, March 23rd, 2005 at 11:08 PM.
    "Within a century, Europe might become a myth, like the Atlandid of Plato. Some historians will probably doubt that it ever existed" (Pseudo Schoppenhauer Complete SMS Collection, part I)

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