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Thread: The Nordish Concept

  1. #41
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    Cosmocreator, you may have a point, but I'm thinking of an important quote from Lundman (1962).

    "Toward the end of the Stone Age, somewhat after 2000 B.C., a time from which date the oldest known northern craniological series (no longer single finds), the people of the north were a rather mixed society. The Nordic race, which later on is so clearly distinguishable, had hardly developed completely, and the different racial elements which had come from various regions were either confined to certain marginal areas or had entered into various mixtures. The mass, however, consisted of low-vaulted or Cro-Magnid types. On the Danish Islands, and partly in the Swedish province of Skåne, southeastern types, both coarse and fine, were more common. Evidently a strain
    of the "Beaker people," who came originally from the Mediterranean and, probably, the Near East, was present. (The well known Borreby site on the Danish island Möen did not, indeed, yield any independent race, but a characteristic local mixed population, in part very coarse-the so-called Borreby type)."

    Bertil J. Lundman, Ph.D, THE RACIAL HISTORY OF SCANDINAVIA, An Outline, THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF ETHNOLOGY AND EUGENICS (IAAEE), New York, 1962

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balder
    I should mention though that dalischen (or Dalic) is according to Lundman a misnomer, from German anthropologist who never set their foot in Sweden. There's no such type in Dalarna.
    What exactly do Lundborg and his co-authors write in their great, however rather older book on Sweden about the Dalarna or Dalics? (I've got the German edition of that Lundborg book myself, but not here, in this minute, with me.)

    I think that Earlson's Nordish concept is more satisfactory.

    http://www.white-history.com/earlson/Nordish.htm

    However, the "Pomeranian Man" does not look Scando-Nordid. The closest would be Trönder-approximative, but he does not look like a western European Germanic Nordid. I think that the idea is interesting but the examples are not that good. The problem is still genetical relatedness. It doesn't take a genious to see that the Fenno-Nordic man is probably not that closely related.

    I suggest that three Nordid (which you can call central) types are enough, Scando-Nordid (Göta, Västmanland and Trönder), Phalian and North-Atlantid. These are the main Nordids of Swedish anthropologist Bertil Lundman, who wrote material up to 1988. The higher-skulled East-Nordids are derived from different proto-groups, and they should therefore not be lumped together.
    This try of Earlson of equalising certain Nordid subtypes of Coon respectively McCulloch and Eickstedt is a bit skew, if you ask me:

    A careful scrutiny of this typological scheme reveals clear parallels between von Eickstedt's nordische Rasse and McCulloch's Central Nordish group. The Teuto-Nordic subrace of von Eickstedt is clearly McCulloch's two Nordic racial types. The Dalo-Nordic subrace of von Eickstedt is clearly McCulloch's Brünn racial type. Finally, the Fenno-Nordic subrace of von Eickstedt has certain similarities with McCulloch's Borreby racial type: a tendency towards rufosity, light eyes, broad-headedness and a coarse body-build. This match is hardly precise, but the two types converge in more features than they diverge on.
    The Borrebys rather should be thrown also somehow into the Dalo-Nordid pot. Eickstedt doesn't say too much about the Fenno-Nordids in his book, but they are given as a regional variant of the Nordids in northeastern-eastern Europe. Equalizing Coon's Borrebys with Eickstedt's Fenno-Nordids doesn't make sense already in respect of the rough geographical localisation of the forms.
    Man ſei Held oder Heiliger. In der Mitte liegt nicht die Weisheit, ſondern die Alltäglichkeit.

    SPENGLER

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    It is odd that Coon's definition of Upper Paleolithic survivors (Brunn, and Borreby) defines them both as having high-vaults. Almost all other anthropologists have implied that Cro-Magnon is for the most part low-skulled. Perhaps I have confused the defintions of Upper Paleolithic survivors and Cro-Magnons.






  4. #44
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    Balder, doesn't Lundman attempt to correlate the large cranial measurements found on Moen to other Cro-Magnon (Upper Paleolithic survivors)? Am I misunderstanding the information? I can't think of any areas where low-skulledness is predominant.






  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordgau
    What exactly do Lundborg and his co-authors write in their great, however rather older book on Sweden about the Dalarna or Dalics? (I've got the German edition of that Lundborg book myself, but not here, in this minute, with me.)
    I don't have that book at home. He was a racial biologist and not a physical anthropologist. Lundborg is interesting, but perhaps not so reliable, unless he got information from more knowledgeable sources than himself.

    I know what Lundman wrote and I shall quote him.

    "...Då hela denna nomenklaturiska utveckling försigått så gott som alldeles självständigt här i Norden, behöva vi knappast alls gå in på vad tyska forskare, i senare tider främst Paudler och Kern menat med "Dalrasse", särsiskt som åtm. de flesta av dem aldrig satt sin fot i Dalarna. - Det enda vi behöva säga är att namnet dalras går tillbaka på en uppgift från 1874 hos Quatrefages (och Hamy): Crania ethnica, I (s. 91, not 2). Där omtalas (s.s liknande den samtidigt nybeskrivna cromagnon-rasen) ett kranium av "type dalecarlien", hämtat till Paris av zoologen Paul Gaimard, som deltog i en officiell fransk vetenskaplig expedition till N. Skandinavien år 1839. Några mått och indices omtalas (HL = 193, HB = 143, OB = 135, AH 93, allt mm, samt att HI var 74,07, AI = 68,7; och NI = ca 51; huvudhöjden och dess indices nämnas däremot ej) men inga avbildningar eller andra uppgifter lämnas, än att tvenne liknande skallar skulle finnas på Karolinska Institutet i Stockholm. (Intet alls nämnes om kraniet i den off. franska reseberättelsen: Voyage du comm. scientifique du Nord. Paris 1843 off.)"

    Lundman, B., p. 84, DALA-ALLMOGENS ANTROPOLOGI, ALMQVISTS & WIKSELLS BOKTRYCKERI, UPPSALA, 1945

    Translated (by me),

    When all this nomenclatural development has been carried on as good as altogether independently here in the Nordic countries, we hardly at all need to go into what German researchers, in later times mainly Paudler and Kern meant with "Dalrasse", especially as at least most of them never set theit foot in Dalarne. - The only thing we need to say is that the name Dal race go back to an information from 1874 by Quatrefages (and Hamy): Crania ethnica, I (p. 91, note 2) (as similar to the simultaneously newly descrived Cromagnon race) a cranium of "type dalecarlien", collected to Paris by the zoologist Paul Gaimard, whom participated in an official French scientific expedition to N. Scandinavia year 1839. Some measurements and indices are reported (Head length = 193, Head breadth = 143, bizygomatic breadth = 135, Upper Facial Height = 93, all in mm, and that Head Index was 74,04, Facial Index = 68,7; and Nasal Index approx. 51; the head height and its indices are however not mentioned) but no depictions or other information is given, than that two similar skulls would be found at Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm. (Nothing at all is mentioned of the crania in the official French account of a journey: Voyage du comm. scientifique du Nord Paris 1843 official.)

    The Borrebys rather should be thrown also somehow into the Dalo-Nordid pot.
    The Danish anthropologist Birket-Smith suggested that the Borreby is derived from the same proto-stock as the Phalian, but brachycephalic (or alternatively: brachycephalised).

    However, what have confused some is that e.g. Biasutti linked Borreby (as a prehistoric form) to the modern Dinarid.

    Adriatic (Dinaric)

    "Prehistoric Form: Borreby."

    http://dienekes.angeltowns.net/texts/biasutticaucasoid/

    A good friend of mine who know Italian and who has read his book have suspected that he showed a bias (together with Skerlj?) because they wanted to see something native in the Dinarid, and not that it came from an eastern stream.

    If I have understood Lundman correctly the Borreby did not yield an independent race, and that it existed before the arrival of the Bell Beaker Dinarids whom modified the stock.

    Some Dinarids might have a component similar to Borreby (what Coon call "Carpathian and Balkan Borreby-like types", which could be the same as A. N Poulianos Epirotic found among the ancient people of Europe, the Sarakatsani). Hooton (Up From The Ape, 1958) describe Dinarid as a composite subrace that is "probably Upper Palaeolithic + Alpine + Armenoid + Nordic". What he mention as Upper Palaeolithic could be the prehistoric form Biasutti mentioned, that is Borreby (if so Borreby-like and most likely something like Epirotic, as they are also found in the Balkan mountains, and not only in the Pindus mountains). Coon had a similar composition as Hooton for Dinarid, but the most important strains he wrote about was Atlanto-Mediterranean and Cappadocian.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balder
    A good friend of mine who know Italian and who has read his book have suspected that he showed a bias (together with Skerlj?)
    Unfortunately, I wouldn`t know about that, but he was certainly not unbiased (in fact he was biased in favour of Mediterranids) and he was a pretty staunch Communist as well.

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    Coon said that Dinarics are not a single race but a process (dinaricization) that occurs when acertain % of dolichocephals mix with a certain % of brachycephals over many centuries, producing a type that is sub-brachycephalic to brachycephalic, but with a face that is more long and narrow. He says that "Dinarics" in different parts of Europe were formed by different combinations of Meds and/or Nords (in the case of Norics) with round-headed races, generally Alpine. The Bell-Beaker Type had a fairly broad range, in all parts of Europe. It was formed in the Syrian Highlands and adjacent parts of southern Asia Minor (now Turkey) from a combination of Cappadocian, Atlantomed and Alpine. From there, it migrated into southern and central Europe, with some smaller groups reaching as far as Britain and north Germany. However, Coon says that many Dinaric Types were actually formed locally in Europe, out of mixtures between Atlantomed, Pontid and/or Gracile Med with Alpine.
    The Carpathian and Balkan Borreby-like Types are not Dinarics, they are simply often mixed with Dinarics. In some areas of central and northern Germany, a type he called "Zoned Beaker" was formed from a combination of Borreby, Bell-Beaker and some Corded elements. This was prior to the arrival of Nordics. The Bell-Beaker and other Dinaric types are virtually non-existant in Scandinavia, and only of minor importance in Britain and northern Germany, except in the case of Britain, the Keltic Nordic has Bell-Beaker elements.

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