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Thread: The Gothic Language

  1. #11
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    Post Re: Gothic Language links

    It is IMHO obvious that at least the east Goths originated from east Europe/west Asia.

    If we believe the theory of east Europe to western central Asia, as origin/homeland of the Indo Germanic peoples (which should still be the most likely theory), we come to the conclusion that the western Asia steppes were areas in which IE people lived.

    Until about 2000 years ago there were still Tocharian’s in very eastern areas of central Asia, northern Iranian people in today southern Russia, around the Caspian Sea and their direct neighbours the eastern Goths, to the West (not to talk about other German tribes, northwest to the northern Iranian tribes and possibly early Slavs). The estimation of the direct location of early eastern Goths hard, but it should have been no more northern than the today northern Ukrainian border to Russia, a smaller move to the south might have taken place after the western Scythians lost their power over the region (about 2000 years ago).

    This situation remained so until the mongoloid steppe people started their drive to the west. A few century’s later the Goths slowly began to appear in the history.

    It is logical that the eastern Goths lived in their region around Ukraine and south west Russia, since long time, from at least 1000BC to around 100BC as neighbours of the northern Iranian Scythes (they could have been even a part of what’s called the Scythes). Later, as a matter of fact, as neighbours of the northern Iranian Alans/Smartians.

    That’s why the Gothic language should be close to the language of the IE people. Its similarities to the Northern Iranian languages could be due to the influence both on each other, but it is also possible that they were similar because both were still very close to the original IE language.

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    Post Re: Gothic Language links

    Because of theory governing sound-change laws among IE languages we can determine that certain words were borrowed into Gothic from other IE languages at a time when Gothic (and all Germanic languages actually) had undergone certain changes, e.g. Grimm's law, Sievers, etc., which the donating languages did not. For this reason and others, and because the words in question are often so-called 'wander-words' and/or technical words associated with steppe nomadism in the style especially of Ossetians and related Iranic groups, experts usually explain this part of the Gothic vocabulary as not originally shared, or at least not in the apparent stratum. It may be that certain concepts had been re-borrowed by the time of Gothic's recording, but that devolves into speculation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skyht
    It is IMHO obvious that at least the east Goths originated from east Europe/west Asia.

    If we believe the theory of east Europe to western central Asia, as origin/homeland of the Indo Germanic peoples (which should still be the most likely theory), we come to the conclusion that the western Asia steppes were areas in which IE people lived.

    Until about 2000 years ago there were still Tocharian’s in very eastern areas of central Asia, northern Iranian people in today southern Russia, around the Caspian Sea and their direct neighbours the eastern Goths, to the West (not to talk about other German tribes, northwest to the northern Iranian tribes and possibly early Slavs). The estimation of the direct location of early eastern Goths hard, but it should have been no more northern than the today northern Ukrainian border to Russia, a smaller move to the south might have taken place after the western Scythians lost their power over the region (about 2000 years ago).

    This situation remained so until the mongoloid steppe people started their drive to the west. A few century’s later the Goths slowly began to appear in the history.

    It is logical that the eastern Goths lived in their region around Ukraine and south west Russia, since long time, from at least 1000BC to around 100BC as neighbours of the northern Iranian Scythes (they could have been even a part of what’s called the Scythes). Later, as a matter of fact, as neighbours of the northern Iranian Alans/Smartians.

    That’s why the Gothic language should be close to the language of the IE people. Its similarities to the Northern Iranian languages could be due to the influence both on each other, but it is also possible that they were similar because both were still very close to the original IE language.

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    Wulfila Project: A Source for Gothic Language Studies

    http://www.wulfila.be/

    For those interested in studying the Gothic language (or really any early Germanic dialects), the Wulfila Project is a must. You can access the full text of the Gothic Bible (including versions that are POS-tagged) including the Skeireins, the Old Saxon Heliand, texts in Middle Dutch, and so forth, as well as grammars and dictionaries of Gothic and other early Germanic dialects.

    They also have links to a plethora of sites related to Gothic studies in general, including sites that host Gothic fonts, sites on Gothic heathenry, sites on the Gothic calendar, and on and on.

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    Very nice! Not sure how I haven't stumbled upon this already. Thanks.

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    ah so this is what Wulfila's greek based alfabet looks like.

    hlaif unsarana žana sinteinan gif uns himma daga.
    — Give us this day our daily bread.

    hlaif - leaf of bread, unsarana - ours, gif uns - giv us, himma daga - this day

    jah aflet uns žatei skulans sijaima, swaswe jah weis afletam žaim skulam unsaraim.
    — And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

    of let - take of - forgive
    obviously the word for debt in norwegian german dutch is cognate to should



    jah ni briggais uns in fraistubnjai, ak lausei uns af žamma ubilin; unte žeina ist žiudangardi jah mahts jah wulžus in aiwins. amen.
    — And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    jah - and, ni - not, briggais - bring, fraistubnjai - temptation, but - ak, lausei - loose - af - of, ubilin - evil, žiudangardi - kingdom, mahts - might, wulžus - magnificence

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    Great Resource!

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    This may have been posted elsewhere...

    Gothic: Introductory Overview
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkKrS5yOPFI

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    If ever there was a universal Germanic tongue to speak, instead of some kind of fake Esperanto, we should use Gothic as the most neutral, if English may be considered too biased. It would be great if every Germanic nation taught Gothic as a second language. Although I don't worship at church anymore, I still can't resist pronouncing the Lord's Prayer in Gothic, every time I see it written and don't care about translation, just taking it for what it is and thinking like a Goth. I consider it superior to English and all other Germanic.

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