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Thread: Haplogroup 16: Mongoloid or Caucasoid?

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    Question Haplogroup 16: Mongoloid or Caucasoid?

    Y chromsome frequency of haplogroup 16 (Uralic haplogroup)

    Finnish 61
    Lithuanian 47
    Saami 42
    Estonian 37
    Mari 33
    Latvian 32
    Chuvash 18
    Russian 14
    Ukranian 11
    Northern Swedish 8
    Gotlander 6
    Polish 4
    Norwegian 4
    German 3
    Armenian 3
    Slovakian 3
    Danish 2
    Belarusian 2
    Turkish 1

    ________________________________________ ____________

    Personally, I believe hg 16 is of Caucasoid derivation, as an East -West gene flow appears to be present, as populations such as the Mari and Chuvash have a lessened incidence of hg 16 a comparitive to European populations as the Saami, Finns, and Balts, who appear to have brought the gene East, as oppose to vice versa.

    However, I am no geneticist by any means, and would appreciate any input on the subject.

    Feel free to respond.

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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    It would help if there were data for clearly Mongoloid populations like Manchus, Han Chinese, Mongolians, etc. for comparison.

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    The frequency seems to increase as you go north and east. So that indicates it is either specific to a Caucasoid group that is heavily concentrated in those parts (Finland, Russia, etc.) and not in others (such as East Baltics), or that it is the result of a Mongoloid mixing gradient that basically fades out by the time it reaces central Europe (in terms of longitude) and moderate northern Europe (Denmark) and south of that.

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    The frequency seems to increase as you go north and east. So that indicates it is either specific to a Caucasoid group that is heavily concentrated in those parts (Finland, Russia, etc.) and not in others (such as East Baltics), or that it is the result of a Mongoloid mixing gradient that basically fades out by the time it reaces central Europe (in terms of longitude) and moderate northern Europe (Denmark) and south of that.
    Yes, geographically speaking, hg 16 is much more concentrated in North-East Europe than it is in other parts of the continent, suggesting that its presence may be non-European, yet I see the influence as being much to high, even if one takes into account that it is indicitive of paternal lineages only.

    I think mongoloid ancestry is better shown by hg 12, from a purely statistical viewpoint.

    Mari 17
    Czech 6
    Russian 4
    Estonian 4
    Cypriot 2
    Yugoslavian 2
    Finnish 2
    Pakistani Brahui 1
    Turkish 1
    Slovakian 1
    Polish 1

    There is hg 26 as well, which, if I remember one of Ross' posts, is hunnish/avar influence, so not distinctly mongoloid, but definitely not European.

    Kurdish Jews 19
    Chuvash 18
    Indian Uttar Pradesh Muslims 16
    Sephardic Jews 8
    Palestinian Arabs 7
    Italian 6
    Pakistani Pathan 6
    Turkish 5
    Estonian 5
    Moroccan Berber 4
    Ossetian 4
    Cypriot 4
    Pakistani Burusho 4
    Ashkenazi Jews 4
    Muslim Kurds 4
    Greek 3
    German 3
    Northern Portuguese 3
    Indian Uttar Pradesh Rajputs 3
    Scottish 2
    Gotlander 2
    Southern Portuguese 2
    Pakistani Baluch 2
    Romanian 2
    Armenian 2
    Georgian 2
    Belarusian 2
    Egypt 2
    Pakistani Brahui 1
    Russian 1
    Slovakian 1
    Yugoslavian 1
    Spanish 1
    Belgian 1
    East Anglian 1

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    Huns were Turko-Mongol, so I am fairly certain they were Mongoloid in appearance. Has it been proven that Huns and Avars are the same group? I have gotten a great deal of contradictory information on central Asian ethnic groups.... I have heard the Kurgans, for example, described as everything from swarthy Turkics to blonde/blue BA's. This general confusion is due to the obvious migratory/nomadic nature of central Asian groups. The Alans, Sarmatians, and Scythians are others about which I am uncertain, though I am increasingly inclined to believe that the Scythians were Pontid.

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    Huns were Turko-Mongol, so I am fairly certain they were Mongoloid in appearance. Has it been proven that Huns and Avars are the same group? I have gotten a great deal of contradictory information on central Asian ethnic groups.... I have heard the Kurgans, for example, described as everything from swarthy Turkics to blonde/blue BA's. This general confusion is due to the obvious migratory/nomadic nature of central Asian groups. The Alans, Sarmatians, and Scythians are others about which I am uncertain, though I am increasingly inclined to believe that the Scythians were Pontid.
    Yes, the discrepency evident when pertaining to the physical appearance of each central asian ethnicty only complicates interpretation of genetic evidence.

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