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Thread: Do Europeans Have Claim to North America?

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel
    I think it's important to remember that Europeans just as well as the nomadic Mongoloid tribes, are both immigrants to North America; whether you came across on a ship or by a strait.

    The cold hard fact is that Europeans, dominantly English, French & Spaniard, fought the Mongoloid's and settled this land to create lebensraum for their families and future generations. Fair and square! And I think it's fair to say that they would have done the same if the situation had been reversed, although I'm sure we wouldn't have any European minority special interest groups

    Wasn’t it Darwin that said, “The strong survive and the weak perish.”
    :handclap

    'Nuff said.

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    It should probably be added to the discussion in this thread that large portions of North America were ceded by the Natives to the European-settlers by treaty (probably more in Canada than in the US), so the process was not purely one of conquest by force. Sometimes Natives voluntarily gave up their rights to very large tracts of land (the size of France of larger) in exchange for specific financial or other rights. Some of these rights have proved useless (e.g. a $5 a month payment for every member of the tribe means nothing in today's debased currency), but others can be quite valuable. Near to where I live, for instance, there is a Native reservation that does a very lucrative business in gasoline and retail sales because, due to applicable treaties, no business on the reservation is subject to sales, gasoline or other taxes that would be applicable off-reserve.

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall
    Gesta Bellica:
    ...I tended to hate Roman culture so much I put it out of my mind.
    Here's a challenge: try and explain what you think "Roman culture" is, but without using the Roman alphabet.

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by SudVolk
    Here's a challenge: try and explain what you think "Roman culture" is, but without using the Roman alphabet.
    I hate the fact that illiteracy in the Roman alphabet will get people shunned and taken as retarded. I have sloppy handwriting. When I saw the runes, ogham; and that stuff that Tolkien was working on, that was Finnish?, I liked it.

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Imagine that exactly the same story of what the Amerindians have known would happen in Europe.
    How natives were dispossed by newcomers from distant lands, who were first totally strangers to the continent (on the contrary of amerindians that had learnt to live in harmony with these lands).
    Because it's exactly what could happen to Europeans, to whites, in their own homeland, Europe, the very sanctuary of the White Race.


    The NorthAmerindians lived on lands that were theirs from ancestral memory. There, their forefathers had ever lived, as far as it could be remembered, themselves were born there, and they intended well to raise their descendance there, until the end of the world surely.
    All the history of their people was there. (I said history - and not prehistory, which is not my concern right here).

    One day, some new comers arrived from beyond the sea. Because they were prosecuted in their own homeland, or because they wanted new vast and fertile lands, etc. anyway, here they are, with luggages and all.
    At first, the natives didn't see vital reasons to prevent absolutely those strangers to come and take a little land. There was place enough for every one, it was possible to share, no problem. Some even welcomed the strangers (cheerful scenes of Thanksgiving and all - very cynical fest, by the way).
    But as time marched on, the newcomers, expanding more quickly than the natives, began to claim more and more lands as theirs.
    Then the natives had to fight to keep their own lands their !
    But they didn't understand they had to fight together, that it was their very presence as Amerindian peoples on this continent that was menaced. They even prefered to continue the quarrels with their own brothers of race, the guys from the rival tribes. (some tribes of Indians were allied with english, others with french, etc.)
    Loosing precious forces in internal fights.

    Until one day, the natives understood that they had become even less numerous that the newcomers. And it was the fight for their very survival that they had to lead. But it was too late. And they were obliged to let the strangers take possession of the land. Irreversibely.

    And today, see the last descendants of these natives. How few they are, how and where they live. How is their culture and civilization.
    As peoples, they are nothing today. (Some individuals maybe have some success in the casinos and others, but it is surely not the ways of their forefathers.)

    In the world, even when most people find that what has happened to them was unfair, revolting (I do, btw); very few, if not nobody, would seriously think one minute to give them back their former lands as before, and force modern inhabitants to make their packages.
    Because the newcomers are now so numerous, and installed since so long time. It is unthinkable to imagine to expell modern populations of USA back to where their colons ancestors came.

    Now imagine what if that happened to Europe.
    Imagine one day, massive populations of arabs, africans, etc. would be so well fixed and installed -by force or pacifically, maybe both- on the European soil, that nobody would seriously think to expell them back.
    True Europeans, (Whites) as minority, even would hardly considered, by the rest of the world, as the veritable owners of the land.
    And the descendants of invaders, mostly blacks I presume, with northern africans, etc. will justify their right to own the land exactly as some of you do for northern america. "we were the most numerous, the strongest, or the cleverest, anyway doesn't matter, it's ours now".

    But in this possible future, I dare to say that the descendants of true former Europeans would have the right to stand up and fight to free the land of their ancestors, and claim it back.
    For never, even after centuries and centuries, would Europe truly belong to the african scum that once invaded it, never would it be their homeland.

    Now transpose what I've said precedently about Europe for your northern American question.
    The Stranger within my gates, he may be evil or good, but I cannot tell what powers control - what reasons sway his mood;
    Nor when the Gods of his far-off land shall repossess his blood.

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    Thumbs Up Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?



    Viva La France!!!!!!

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artois' Redneck
    And the descendants of invaders, mostly blacks I presume, with northern africans, etc. will justify their right to own the land exactly as some of you do for northern america. "we were the most numerous, the strongest, or the cleverest, anyway doesn't matter, it's ours now".

    But in this possible future, I dare to say that the descendants of true former Europeans would have the right to stand up and fight to free the land of their ancestors, and claim it back.
    For never, even after centuries and centuries, would Europe truly belong to the african scum that once invaded it, never would it be their homeland.

    Now transpose what I've said precedently about Europe for your northern American question.
    This is an interesting perspective, and intuitively you have a point. But, to clarify, I imagine you are speaking about races as opposed to ethnicities? I ask because if one were to apply this perspective to ethnicities within Europe, then practically everyone would have the 'right' to expel someone else from their current territory - e.g. you could say that the English are still continential invaders of Britain and that the Welsh have the right to drive them into the sea and regain their British homeland. Yet, this would seem absurd on its face. So, the race versus ethnicity distinction is an important one in this context.

    The homeland question is interesting. The homelands of all races, in the sense of the place where they evolved and developed their racial character, are found in the Old World. If an Amerindian were to accuse me of occupying his homeland, I would point out that, leaving aside the fact his ancestors surrendered this particular area of land in a treaty, this isn't his homeland strictly speaking in any event.

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    I’m not certain that the Amerindians, just under the pretext that they are linked to the mongoloids of Asia, can be considered as just a migration wave among others that american continent has known, just like europeans or africans who started coming since the 17th century.
    Amerindians are there since some 20000 years, aren’t they? We’re talking about prehistory. Not a few centuries, but many thousand years.
    And to give a comparison in Europe the Indo-Europeans arrived about 2200 before JC. Not quite the same scale of time.



    The Amerindians had no other mother-land than the American continent. This is there that they evoluted as ethnies, as peoples.

    Look at Geronimo’s photo in Turificator’s post, page 2 in this topic. Do you really think this guy would have been in his right place among Chinese or Japanese?



    Just as if we said that Europeans could go live with middle-eastern folks, because of the same Caucasoid race.



    Considering the treaties, I don’t believe that they were legitimate. For example, all the concessions my own government makes to satisfy the invaders of Europe, all the laws the leaders of my people do to make this land a multiracial nation, I consider as absolutely illegitimate. (It is however totally legal juridically speaking.)

    Otherwise, the treaties signed with the blade under the throat have no legitimacy at all. I can believe that at first the red-skins signed treaties voluntarily, but well, it seems to me that in most cases it was “sign or it’s the war and we crush you”...



    I am myself europeist ethno-differentialist.* The supremacism fight is in no way mine. I don’t care about making lebensraum or colonies, or ruling distant lands in the other side of this planet, all that matters to me is that my people live freely on his ancestral land, in his own culture and ways.

    Every form of colonisation seems to me bad from the start, because it always destructs another culture or civilisation.

    Be it a colonisation from others in my lands (a fortiori), or even from my people in the lands of others. And god knows that France had its share in colonisation !!! The results of colonisation made by European nations in the rest of the world has been a destroying of many cultures, an imposition of “occidental” ways everywhere, encouraging the people there to develop industries, etc... instead of continue living in their ancestral ways, respectful of the land and earth. Now, they have learnt the lesson well, and begin to destroy their own environment (and even ours, consequently... pollution doesn’t care the borders) in a frightening way, just like we did and still do.



    So concerning history of north America, my sympathies are more for the Indians who fought for the lands that belong to their ancestors since high prehistory, who lived in harmony with land and animals (just like our own heathen ancestors in Europe); rather than for colons freshly arrived, slaughtering buffaloes and devastating the land to put towns and railways, and who soon make coming hundreds of africans... and so founded the first multiracial nation of the world. Not a melting-pot in this time, but what had to happen has happened since.






    But, when that is said, I must say that what’s done is done.
    It’s too late for the Indians now.

    And in the situation of nowadays I can only strongly sympathise with the white American or Canadian racially aware, conscious of his European heritage, menaced just like me to disappear in mixing and multi-culture/non-culture. And the Euro-American of today is in no way responsible for the crimes of the first colons his forefathers. Culpabilisation is only a tool for our common enemies to make us weak and without pride of what we are.



    Do Europeans have claim to North America ? I think they had definitely not, at first. But that I regret or approve the conquest, it has been. The fact that the European colons had not the right to take the land doesn’t matter at all anymore. Their descendants are here, and descendants of the natives couldn’t anyway occupy it all again, cause they are now so few and weak. Surely they wouldn’t resist even an attack from Cuba. Everybody could take the land. I don’t know if Turificator is serious and really thinks that “European-Americans should consider moving to Europe”, but what would be the use of this ? Just abandoning the land to blacks and Hispanos. They would take the land and its wealth, its resources, its beauty. (And anyway as THEY are not taught to have culpability, they wouldn’t take much care of the Natives). And as European, I don't need to precise that I prefer a thousand times that brothers of race have it rather than others.



    Yes, invasion of North America was, I think, a totally unjustified slaughtering and the Natives would have deserved other fate than what they had.

    But too late for the regrets. For occupation of these lands is now important, vital at the scale of the world.



    And it becomes more and more urging that it’s not a multicultural, multiracial power that owns it. For how could the peoples of the world think to preserve their own differences, cultures, etc. when the greatest superpower is openly multiracial?
    And the better for you and us would be that it would be a racially aware white power that raises instead of this multicultural crap.




    The survival of Europe as sanctuary-continent, homeland of what’s called the “White Race”, depends partly of the fact that the most powerful nation of the world, whose inhabitants are mostly descendants of the same ancestors as ours, stops playing against us for their economical and strategical interests (That’s the USA that are encouraging that we take the Turkey in European Union.) and above all stops promoting a melting-pot "model".





    To resume : existence of a white nation in north america was unjustified at the beginning, but now it is. I don’t see the interest of trying to prove that your forefathers had the right, or were morally rightful, to occupy a land that wasn’t theirs, or trying to prove that the former owners had no more rights than them even when the former ones were there since thousands of years. Anyway you wouldn’t cheat anybody.
    But the fact is: today even the homeland of our race has cruel need that you euro-americans rule proudly this piece of earth. (And I suppose you want it to )

    Isn’t that sufficient to prove that you have legitimacy to own North America ?




    * = therefore, to answer your question Telperion, yes I apply my precedent thought even to ethnicities. But of course, in Europe there can be no possible "claims" or territorial revendications tracing back before the end of Germanic migrations. Because it was the ultimate major step of the Genesis of European Peoples. (I should even say not before the modifications brought by Norman invasions, because it has changed the deal a bit.)



    Post-Scriptum for Rodskarl :
    We don't say the word "viva", in fact we say "Vive la France". That's the Italians and Spaniards that say "viva" with an "a". Anyway, thank you comrade . Long live to Norge, too. And may I say that I am honoured to talk to a Vanir. (I didn't know that your blessed kind was linked to the web.) Send my respectful greetings at the grands in Vanaheim.
    The Stranger within my gates, he may be evil or good, but I cannot tell what powers control - what reasons sway his mood;
    Nor when the Gods of his far-off land shall repossess his blood.

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    Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artois' Redneck



    Post-Scriptum for Rodskarl :
    We don't say the word "viva", in fact we say "Vive la France". That's the Italians and Spaniards that say "viva" with an "a". Anyway, thank you comrade . Long live to Norge, too. And may I say that I am honoured to talk to a Vanir. (I didn't know that your blessed kind was linked to the web.) Send my respectful greetings at the grands in Vanaheim.
    LOL Regards yourself; monsiegneur Vlaams.

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    Post Re: Do Europeans have claim to North America?

    Vive le Québec et vive la Normandie!

    Bah, screw Columbus (who did NOT discover NA btw) and Cabot...Cartier and de Champlain all the way!

    I feel a stronger tie to Québec than France. I have been to France and I felt a stranger there. But then again my ancestors were invaders of France originally as well I feel that Québec's climate and atmosphere is compatible with that of north western Europe so I don't feel much out of place.

    As for the natives, I do respect them a lot. I do believe they should be given their own lands within Canada and be allowed to self govern, as I belieev Québec should be solely for the Québécois and should be allowed to self govern. Canada is very torn up unlike many other countries. It is split up into the West, Ontario, Québec, the Maritimes and the northern Terrirtories..of which the groups living within those places don't quite like those living in the other regions lol

    About the guns...I would rather a bow and arrow than a 17th century musket that is for sure!! Bad aim..takes forever to load lol The problem was the natives were not completely unified against the invaders, and were very naive. The natives did not really give up the land "willingly" as someone mentioned. The problem was the Native and European costumes were very different, also the Natives did not fully understand the situation in its entirety.

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