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Thread: Do Europeans Have Claim to North America?

  1. #11
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    Originally posted by Vanessa
    ps i dont know how my posts get so long winded and off topic

    No no, it was all on topic. The situation with Ireland is totally relevent and an interesting addition to the topic You made a lot of good points, white men did make America/Canada what it is, there is no doubt about that! This question for me really comes out of a loss of feeling a tie to this land. I could never speak the way about Canada that you do about Ireland! Not ever!
    thats such a pity i love my country and everything associated with it-i tend to put it on par with my race because i find it so difficult to put one ahead of the other.
    you say you dont feel a tie to canada so do you feel a tie to wherever it is your ancestors came from? i imagine thats where most americans/canadians feel bonds,although in a way it must be hard to feel attached to a country if youve never visited or dont have any family still living there :
    i suppose the only option for americans and canadians who dont feel they have a direct history in their country is to set about making one however you do that!

  2. #12
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    "Control is Ownership"
    - Karl Marx.

    North America is ours. As is Europe, Russia, Australia, New Zealand and soon again South Africa (supposing we don't lose it).
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Ominous Lord Spoonblade's Avatar
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    But what about a deeper claim to land, more than simply control?

    I dont agree that control is ownership, at least not necessarily rightful ownership.
    I envision a world where people dawning long white robes and elaborate headdresses run rampant down the streets, waving their arms in the air while screaming "we've gone mad, we've gone mad", like defrocked monks breaking the silence of ages past.

    Spoonblade: Sharper than a knife and twice as deadly.

  4. #14
    New Member WhiteFreedom4Ever's Avatar
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    NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS

    Vanessa said:
    "Yes WF4E, they were colonizers as well but we cannot forget that we basically "colonized" all of Europe. Our ancestors moved to these different lands, we didn't start off in Ireland, Iceland, Germany etc."


    That's very true, and certainly the North American Indian of today would agree with you. However, there are several crucial differences between our "colonization" of Europe and the Mongoloid's colonization of North America. For one thing, the ancestors of modern-day Europeans occupied what is now Europe over 100 thousand years ago, so long ago that actual racial/evolutionary change took place in those early ancestors of ours. In short, our ancestors came to be far more "native" to Europe than the Mongoloids did in North America, since they hadn't lived here long enough to undergo actual racial/evolutionary change. They were true aliens in North America, and weren't "native" at all - any more than the forest monkeys of central Florida - who escaped into the wild years ago can be considered "native". So Europeans did not steal the land of the so-called "native" American Indians, but simply arrived as Johnny-Come-Lately competitors - competitors who eventually came to push aside an earlier "alien" species - the Mongoloids of Asia.

    Tom

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Claims

    We need to know what constitutes this notion of 'claim';
    1.
    Is a 'claim' based on 'divine right'?
    The Zionists think that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. They think that this gives them a claim to land that has been occupied by non-Jews for thousands of years.

    2.
    Is a 'claim' based on 'here first'?
    There would have to be a statute of limitations here, otherwise there will be interminable arguments all based on the nihilistic notion that no one was ever first ... anywhere.
    So it may be reasonable to say that if a land was held by a certain people for say, three centuries, then they have a 'claim' to the land that cannot be alienated by any who come afterwards.

    3.
    Or is 'claim' based merely on 'possession'?
    This is the amoral position of 'might is right', although it is often said that 'possession is 9 10ths of the law'.

    It seems that Americans can only operate under the latter 'claim'.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  6. #16
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    Ultimately those who own something ARE those who are powerful enough to claim it and defend it. We have laws setup to do what we deem as justice, however twisted and unfair it may be. But, if someone enters your home, kills you and takes your money, he ultimately has it and you are gone. This is really the only utlimate power and the way history has played out. To the victor go the spoils.

    If you want a greater justification for the ownership, like ancient dwelling, then the case of Caucasoids migrating to North America during or before the Mongoloids is something of interest to you. If they did, then we have rightful claim to it, and also since the Caucasoids were either killed and/or assimilated, then the death of American Indians could be said to be karma and perhaps a just payback.

    Nevertheless, what's done is done. We have a mighty civilization here that is considered to be the foremost superpower of the world. This isn't something you just pack up and leave.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    The question shows how difficult morals are, and how easy hypocrisy is.
    Can one hold to a creed of 'Blood and Soil' for oneself, but deny it to others?
    It is easy to do, but it IS hypocritical.

    The USA Declaration of Independence condemns the British King for placing his armies on American soil - could not the Iraqi's use the same objections towards the Americans?
    Is not America behaving towards the Iraqis in the same way as the British did to the Americans?
    By the same ideology, the Iraqi's have a right to fight a war of independence, but the Americans will not recognise this and call them terrorists.

    Ultimately, is one to take a principled and moral position, or is one going to take the easy route of unprincipled amoralism?
    Those who take the latter should never complain about any injustices heaped upon them as they only adhere to 'might is right'. When they feel dispossessed themselves, they should agree that this is 'right'.

    Death, though, is the ultimate victor - because in the 'long run we are all dead'.

    Do the dead have rights?

    The Egyptians are calling for the return of ancient Mummies to their homeland - is that right?

    Or is it a sign of strength to be able to give back things which were stolen in the past?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mac Seafraidh's Avatar
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    The answer is yes, besides America was named after an Italian anyway. My statement is non explanitory but is showing that a European has bascially claimed it by giving it a name.

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    Member Italia_Ariana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MVSSOLINI MIT VNS
    The answer is yes, besides America was named after an Italian anyway. My statement is non explanitory but is showing that a European has bascially claimed it by giving it a name.
    MVSSOLINI MIT VNS:

    I would like to know if you would consider moving to Italy. Most Italian nationalists would love to see the diaspora italiana from Australia, Latin America, and North America return home.
    http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/7df88...5g0g_A6P36BzzG
    "Oggi non ci sono più italiani di ponente o di levante, del continente o delle isole, ci sono soltanto degli italiani"- Il Duce
    "Non c'è nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"- Dante

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    Any teritory is fair game for the more competent ones.
    The question is if the ones who already live there can consolidate and fight back.

    I think the world, especially whites have reached a point where there is no need to fight over teritories in the classic sense. So, now there is a chance to try to mend all the damage done in the most expansionistic times.

    It's unfortunate that many great civlizations and peoples were wiped-out in the process of colonialization and exploitation.

    The very countries from which the riches have been drained are now exporting their citizens to ex-imperial masters, because on average they are young, and the former masters are getting old in average.

    It's all fair, nothing that hasn't happened before. It's just a question of making smart moves.

    American rednecks have a right to hate Italians, just as Italians can take pride in their men discovering and naming the continent.

    Some may consider Slavs an alien people in America, but they forget of the first owners of Alaska, the thousands of Ukrainians and Russians who settled in America long before the civil wars....wars in which many Serbs fought... etc.

    America is a joined venture of many European peoples.
    In the end, someone will prevail....someone smart.
    Now, the concept of an American ethnicity is prevailing, turning the entire country into a big mush of races and ethnicities who bow down to the all-powerful god of MONEY.

    Perhaps in another 400 years, there will be a huge immigration of brown, slant-eyed Americans into Europe, some of them may even exclaim: "My ancestors were the original settlers over 800 years ago!" and try to lay claim to European soil...

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