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Thread: Euro DNA 1.0: A pan-genome test that reads your DNA across all 23 of your chromosomes

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    What proof, Sir?

    Btw, this test by Anthony Frudakis is a complete scam. It can't be used to prove anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    What proof, Sir?

    Btw, this test by Anthony Frudakis is a complete scam. It can't be used to prove anything.
    Siegfried doesn't seem to agree with you:

    http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost...9&postcount=44

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried
    I don't think the test is that bad at all. Some quotes:

    "EURO-DNA 1.0™, the first test of its kind ever developed, is a pan-genome test that reads your DNA across all 23 of your chromosomes to report your Sub-European population (i.e. “ethnic”) affiliations."

    A lot more reliable than those Y-chromosome tests that fly around.

    "The EURO-DNA 1.0™ test is comprised of 320 European AIMs [Ancestry Informative Markers], obtained from screening tens of thousands of candidates from human genome database and DNA microchips. [...] The primary parental samples used to develop EURO-DNA 1.0™ were collected in Europe, the Middle East and India. Each sample was anthropologically qualified; each individual and all 4 of their grandparents lived in the appropriate geopolitical region, spoke the appropriate language for the region, reported full ethnic affiliation with the parental group corresponding to the region and reported no known admixture for any of his/her grandparents."

    Sounds like they did a rather thorough job. Also note the phrase 'anthropologically qualified'; this is, of course, but a euphemism for being of the proper race. It seems EURO-DNA 1.0 definitely tests racial affiliation.

    And look at this:



    Yellow refers to the frequency of the NOR (Northwestern European) markers, red does the same for the MED (Southeast European) markers, green for MIDEAS (Middle Eastern) markers, and blue for SA (South Asian Caucasoid) markers.

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    So?

    All this test does it say whether you are NW European (or related, in which case you will score lower) or not and to what extent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    Yes, that is its significance.
    And what does that prove?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    And what does that prove?
    If one can use genetic tests to prove Northwestern origin, than that is certainly of racial/biological value. After all, this would only be possible if such a group had achieved a distinct racial/genetic identity through relative genetic isolation. Would you mind explaining how the Ancestry-by-DNA EURO-DNA test is of less significance than any other racial test available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried
    If one can use genetic tests to prove Northwestern origin, than that is certainly of racial/biological value. After all, this would only be possible if such a group had achieved a distinct racial/genetic identity through relative genetic isolation.
    Nope, it's based on geography only.

    Would you mind explaining how the Ancestry-by-DNA EURO-DNA test is of less significance than any other racial test available?
    It's inconsistent, unreliable, and a rip-off. It is from the same company who advertised the AncestryByDNA test which showed that Americans who had Pennsylvania German blood had high levels of EA blood - which sunk drastically as soon as more people were sampled.

    Frudakis asserted that Russians are 20% EA, just to change his mind after a few days and claim it was 8%. In fact, the 8% only means that they are different from NW Europeans and the test is unable to express that in a different way than by some arbitrary EA admixture (which has no basis in reality according to actual genetic studies).

    The issue has been discussed here:

    http://www.haloscan.com/comments/die...6389716517644/


    Some relevant quotes by Frudakis:

    One thing you need to keep in mind - and this is me talking and not Frudakis - is that these tests are measuring the relative genetic affiliation to the parental populations. So, IMO, if Russians have ~8% with ABD2.5, this does not necessarily mean (but it _may_ mean it) they are actually 8% EA, but rather, when compared to NW Europeans and NE Asians, the genes of those Russians tested gave a profile similar to that of a 92:8 mix of those groups. We can ask also why Saudis, a Middle Eastern group, when tested with
    Euro 1.0, gave only ~ 50% Middle Eastern. In Euro 1.0, ME was defined as a parental population further east (Iran? Iraq?). So, compared to those, Saudis are not as "ME." Tony says that the parentals were determined empirically, through clustering of the genetic profiles using the STRUCTURE program, which sort of implies it was not completely a priori. So, I'm certainly not critiquing the choice of parentals.


    EGR, Tony told me he doesn't have the time to monitor this blog (after all, he is helping to run the company). You may want to know that he told me that the "20%" EA in Russians was just a hypothetical statement to illustrate a point here, and that the real % was closer to 8%. However, until we see the data online, complete with sample sizes, it is not really determined; just letting you know what I heard.
    Dienekes, my impression is that Dr. F doesn't have the time to answer piece-meal questions from many people; it'll be better to pool the questions together. Of course, you are under no obligation to do so. I think I've asked him enough questions for now, myself.
    I believe new ethnic data will be put on the site soon; in addition, as Dr. F said here, parts of the site may be re-written to make it clearer.
    We can wait for that.
    Lundgren

    With the chosen population model of EURO 1.0, they will type based on their genetic distance to each of the 4 groups. If the genetic distance to the closest group is still very large, we can say the model is inappropriate for this population. Similarly, it would also be inappropriate for a 100% sub-Saharan African, who could insist on taking the test and would be shoe-horned into the 4 EUropean groups even though they are not European and have no European admixture. For this reason, since EURO 1.0 is a hierarchical test requiring a prior fit with the population model, we do our best to pre-screen customers for this fit. This is why Ancestrybydna 2.5 is required. Unfortunately for Basques, this screen is impossible, and their ancestry would be shoe-horned into the NOR, MED, MIDEAS, SA model.

    Lower levels of admixture, particularly in Europeans, require a bit of detective work to interpret. This is because the test does not only report recent admixture events, but we believe, ancient events as well. Because our genetic history is very complex, and interactions between separated populations occurred many times before recorded history, individuals of certain ethnic groups tend to show specific admixture results. Examples include Russians, Scandanavians and Eastern Europeans showing low levels of East Asian admixture (even without a Chinese great grandparent), which possibly arose from widespread interaction between Europeans and Asians during and before the Hun invasions and subsequent ethnic amalgamation. Greeks, Italians, Middle Easterners and Jews reliably and systematically show low levels of Native American admixture (even without an American Indian great grandparent) for anthropological and genetic reasons that are not yet well understood. Thus, when interpreting a result of a low level of admixture (for example, 90% European/10% Native American), it is advisable to do so against a backdrop of what one already knows from other tests such as Y chromosome and mtDNA tests, and paper genealogy such as records and surname searches.
    http://www.ancestrybydna.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorostan
    Nope, it's based on geography only.
    If people from a certain geographical area share markers which can be used to contrast them against peoples from other areas, does that not mean they are racially differentiated from the other peoples? Don't all genetic ancestry tests use such methods? Even physical anthropology uses geographical centres. This is entirely valid, as a race evolves in a geographical pocket.


    It's inconsistent, unreliable, and a rip-off. It is from the same company who advertised the AncestryByDNA test which showed that Americans who had Pennsylvania German blood had high levels of EA blood - which sunk drastically as soon as more people were sampled.
    How does this example strengthen your argument? You yourself admit the number became more realistic when more people are tested. The same thing can be observed with every ancestry test; the greater the sample, the more reliable the conclusion.
    Of course the test isn't perfect and its four-way model is rather inadequate, but it is inadequate mainly in the regions that fall outside the four elected centres (the centres being Northwestern Europe, Southeastern Europe, the Middle East, and India; the test would probably paint a very distorted picture of, for example, Spaniards).


    Similarly, it would also be inappropriate for a 100% sub-Saharan African, who could insist on taking the test and would be shoe-horned into the 4 EUropean groups even though they are not European and have no European admixture.
    Of course. The test only checks for the 4 European groups, ignoring all other markers, European or non-European. Once again; it's not perfect and inadequate for certain groups (Spaniards, for example) but I am still not convinced it is grossly inadequate for Northwestern Europeans.

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