Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS Concept

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Prussian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, July 14th, 2005 @ 12:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Nordid+East Baltic
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    By the shore of the Baltic
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Politics
    Progressive Nationalism
    Posts
    663
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Lightbulb Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS Concept

    Basically I would like to start a thread based on this thread recently posted here on Skadi forum.....
    ..........to continue talking along the lines of future options for more specifically National Socialism.

    Generally to discuss ideas & express possibilities for the Modernisation of a progressive sense of National Socialism whilst still keeping the Orthodox National Socialist concept as the foundation to building something more in tune with todays day & age, rather how does a more modernised & progressive sense of National Socialism go about making the transition into the mainstream or more so go about generating the momentum for that thrust into the collective consciousness with in the framework of a progressive public image whilst overcoming Post-War stereotypes through intelligently guided strategic interests to pursue the means to become intertwined within the pysche of the folk community.

    On a final note I would like to mention that the sole purpose of this thread is to be a brainstorming session for the conception of a more progressive outlook in securing our objectives as a whole, cooperation among ourselves is desired yet constructive criticism is also welcome, what ideas come to mind?
    Last edited by Prussian; Friday, December 24th, 2004 at 04:43 PM.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Oskorei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Sunday, December 14th, 2008 @ 05:15 PM
    Ethnicity
    Swedish
    Subrace
    Tydal/Litorid/Nordid
    Country
    Sweden Sweden
    Location
    Gothenburrah
    Gender
    Politics
    Identitär
    Religion
    Indo-europeisk Traditionalist
    Posts
    2,179
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    22
    Thanked in
    22 Posts

    Post Re: AW: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    Part of our problem is that all forms of Nationalism are perceived as "evil" and "cold-hearted". Would it benefit us to have more women in prominent places, being naturally perceived as less "evil" and "cold"?

    We also should focus on the concept of Germanic Democracy, instead of the Führerprinzip. The people will not vote anyone into office who promises to become their dictator. We should therefore study the political systems of our ancestors, with their love for personal freedom combined with the limited Führerprinzip. Warlords/Führers were chosen for limited tasks, to protect the freedom of the people. An attempt to lower taxes and abolish parts of bureaucracy would fit into this aspect also (but not going so far that it creates a classridden society with pauperism, ie. not going into the extreme of neoliberalism).

    We should also focus on the classic NS idea of the society without class conflicts, basically the society where there is no longer any classes but all are part of the Volk. This is accomplished by the State holding the ultimate control over the economy. In Sweden at least, this is similar to the "Folkhem" that the Social Democrats created in the postwar period, and which still has positive connotations to most Swedes. The word is currently unused, and could easily be appropriated. This would be radical reformism (especially if combined with aspects of National Syndicalism or Fascism), and would hopefully appear very attractive when compared to Communism and Capitalism.

    A realistic view towards immigration. The costs should be hammered into the heads of the people at every possible occasion (1/3 of the State budget in Sweden). At the moment however, there seems to be very few detailed proposals on how to deal with the currently existing immigrants. NS Parties (or sects) propose total repatriation, National Democrat parties talk very vaguely about repatriation. I guess that it is impossible to achieve total repatriation, so a detailed program on who to expel would make us appear both more realistic and more kind (many people shy away from Nationalism on the grounds that "my best friend is adopted" or "my cousin is half-Polish" et al). The Reich accepted Mischlings. Who can we accept?

    Bringing back the Green aspects of NS. They are actually quite radical, and stand a good comparison with the animal rights-movement and the ecologist movement. However, our concept has a depth, and a folkishness, in the ideas of Blut und Boden, that vegans and ecologists lack.

    Apart from that, the idea that NS is ethnopluralist, and really always was, should be hammered into the heads of the people all the time. We are not for genocide, we are for the rights of all peoples to live. Including our own.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    TeutonicMensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    Tuesday, August 7th, 2012 @ 06:34 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Canada Canada
    State
    Alberta Alberta
    Location
    Calgary
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Family
    Time Spoke For Me
    Occupation
    Reconstruction
    Politics
    Nature
    Posts
    109
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    I believe one of the best, and most important ways for us to bring our word back to the people, is to also promote NS in other countries around the world.

    Indeed, for us, our main goal must be the survival of the White Race, and this is one of those steps towards this. If we helped setup, and/or support other (serious) NS movements around the world, be they White countries or not, people could not call us haters, lest they see themselves in the mirror as fools.

    We must show them that we demand for ourselves nothing more then the same right we expect every people to demand for themselves. A right to self determination, and a better future.

    Life is a struggle, but it is not always a struggle in one direction.

    I think a global NS movement is nessicary for our message to be heard and considered by the masses. Another thing we must do, is try to get people to move away from mainstream media. I have found, more then a few non-mainstream media, while perhaps not supporting us, nor agreeing with us, give us a fair consideration, and do not attempt to overly slader us.

    I believe that, if we were able to develope a World-wide, multi-ethnic NS movement, for which each people would work towards the betterment of their own people, under a simular principle, and we allow people to see that we can all agree on the fundamentals, they will have to look and consider those fundamentals.

    Those being that a people has the right, and must for themselves demand and defend the right to self determination.

    I will, at some point in the future put out (once I have completed it) an essay on World National Socialism.

    And I would like to stress one more thing, that being that the survival of one people, is tied together in many ways, with the survival of all people. Enlightenment is the key.

    Blut und Ehre
    -James

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    TeutonicMensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Last Online
    Tuesday, August 7th, 2012 @ 06:34 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Canada Canada
    State
    Alberta Alberta
    Location
    Calgary
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Family
    Time Spoke For Me
    Occupation
    Reconstruction
    Politics
    Nature
    Posts
    109
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    One last thing I must stress, is that I in no way consider such a "movement" to be a movement as such. But rather many NS movements intraconnected through a simular understanding and belief.

    I believe every NS movement, in any country, must be tailored to that people. The ideals of NS are connected with every facet of the people, culturally, spiritually, and thus, each of these must be worked by the people of each country, to suit their own needs.

    Blut und Ehre
    -James

  5. #5
    Funding Member
    „Friend of Germanics”
    Funding Membership Inactive
    Zyklop's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Chrom-Mangan
    Country
    Other Other
    Gender
    Religion
    non-religious
    Posts
    2,537
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    27
    Thanked in
    27 Posts

    Post AW: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    Let´s see what the inventor of National Socialism had to say about reformation endeavours:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adolf Hitler
    In these matters we must never lose sight of the following: What we call the programme of the movement is absolutely right as far as its ultimate aims are concerned, but as regards the manner in which that programme is formulated certain psychological considerations had to be taken into account. Hence, in the course of time, the opinion may well arise that certain principles should be expressed differently and might be better formulated.

    But any attempt at a different formulation has a fatal effect in most cases. For something that ought to be fixed and unshakable thereby becomes the subject of discussion. As soon as one point alone is removed from the sphere of dogmatic certainty, the discussion will not simply result in a new and better formulation which will have greater consistency but may easily lead to endless debates and general confusion.

    In such cases the question must always be carefully considered as to whether a new and more adequate formulation is to be preferred, though it may cause a controversy within the movement, or whether it may not be better to retain the old formula which, though probably not the best, represents an organism enclosed in itself, solid and internally homogeneous. All experience shows that the second of these alternatives is preferable.

    For since in these changes one is dealing only with external forms such corrections will always appear desirable and possible. But in the last analysis the generality of people think superficially and therefore the great danger is that in what is merely an external formulation of the programme people will see an essential aim of the movement. In that way the will and the combative force at the service of the ideas are weakened and the energies that ought to be directed towards the outer world are dissipated in programmatic discussions within the ranks of the movement.

    For a doctrine that is actually right in its main features it is less dangerous to retain a formulation which may no longer be quite adequate instead of trying to improve it and thereby allowing a fundamental principle of the movement, which had hitherto been considered as solid as granite, to become the subject of a general discussion which may have unfortunate consequences.

    This is particularly to be avoided as long as a movement is still fighting for victory. For would it be possible to inspire people with blind faith in the truth of a doctrine if doubt and uncertainty are encouraged by continual alterations in its external formulation?

    The essentials of a teaching must never be looked for in its external formulas, but always in its inner meaning. And this meaning is unchangeable. And in its interest one can only wish that a movement should exclude everything that tends towards disintegration and uncertainty in order to preserve the unified force that is necessary for its triumph.

    Here again the Catholic Church has a lesson to teach us. Though sometimes, and often quite unnecessarily, its dogmatic system is in conflict with the exact sciences and with scientific discoveries, it is not disposed to sacrifice a syllable of its teachings. It has rightly recognized that its powers of resistance would be weakened by introducing greater or less doctrinal adaptations to meet the temporary conclusions of science, which in reality are always vacillating.

    And thus it holds fast to its fixed and established dogmas which alone can give to the whole system the character of a faith. And that is the reason why it stands firmer today than ever before. We may prophesy that, as a fixed pole amid fleeting phenomena, it will continue to attract increasing numbers of people who will be blindly attached to it the more rapid the rhythm of changing phenomena around it.

    Therefore whoever really and seriously desires that the idea of the People's State should triumph must realize that this triumph can be assured only through a militant movement and that this movement must ground its strength only on the granite firmness of an impregnable and firmly coherent programme. In regard to its formulas it must never make concessions to the spirit of the time but must maintain the form that has once and for all been decided upon as the right one; in any case until victory has crowned its efforts.

    Before this goal has been reached any attempt to open a discussion on the opportuneness of this or that point in the programme might tend to disintegrate the solidity and fighting strength of the movement, according to the measures in which its followers might take part in such an internal dispute. Some 'improvements' introduced today might be subjected to a critical examination to-morrow, in order to substitute it with something better the day after. Once the barrier has been taken down the road is opened and we know only the beginning, but we do not know to what shoreless sea it may lead.

    This important principle had to be acknowledged in practice by the members of the National Socialist Movement at its very beginning. In its programme of twenty-five points the National Socialist German Labour Party has been furnished with a basis that must remain unshakable. The members of the movement, both present and future, must never feel themselves called upon to undertake a critical revision of these leading postulates, but rather feel themselves obliged to put them into practice as they stand.

    Otherwise the next generation would, in its turn and with equal right, expend its energy in such purely formal work within the party, instead of winning new adherents to the movement and thus adding to its power. For the majority of our followers the essence of the movement will consist not so much in the letter of our theses but in the meaning that we attribute to them.

    http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/books/43kampf/kampf43.htm
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Stríbog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, January 12th, 2005 @ 11:45 PM
    Subrace
    Nordid-Baltid (Aistin)
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    Location
    Where Rust Belt meets Farm Belt
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Occupation
    college student
    Politics
    Environmentalism and eugenics
    Religion
    occultism & Nature worship
    Posts
    2,172
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    30
    Thanked in
    30 Posts

    Post Re: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    I have a question, not specific to NS but relevant thereto, that I have pondered for some time.

    Is it acceptable, moral, ethical, etc. to mislead the masses of people in order to gain power, because one feels that they comprehend neither the true scope of one's political plan, nor their own long-term self interest, and thus would be better served by a benevolent dictatorship, so to speak? I refer to the general working people who do not understand global economics, political philosophy, long-term racial evolution, etc. and whose assets are spent in the short term rather than invested for the long term. The political program in question would mislead them in a benign way, in order to provide a more prosperous and secure long-term situation. Should one be permitted to mislead them if it is with good intentions and no malice aforethought, and the other alternative was to be quite honest with them and lose the election, be overthrown, whatever? By accurately representing a platform that can only be appreciated by the free-thinking few, one is almost certainly dooming the campaign to defeat, at least in our current political paradigm.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Prussian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, July 14th, 2005 @ 12:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Nordid+East Baltic
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    By the shore of the Baltic
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Politics
    Progressive Nationalism
    Posts
    663
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post AW: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    ......indeed there are many ways in which such a task could be undertaken or viewed, however what the reality of the post-war situation incorporates or more so what the post-NS reality we face brings us to the question, how does a specific ideology & political system make the necessary steps to create the momentum for serious expressions of the political will through a creating a progressive reform without distorting the Orthodox base?

    In all this we come to asking ourselves, do we either remain political dinosaurs or demonstrate a sense of moving forward in turn representing our era just as the NSDAP? In the context of the NSDAP was innovative & progressive for it's time especially concerning it's policies on all levels of existence, so we come to the conclusion that it is obvious that some form of modernisation of the political basis is needed, but how do we go about it is the main problem.

    It is true that history is a building block, things are built upon from earlier concepts & this is no different in the sense of politics, but what also must be realised that not only is a building block but it is also a chopping block, so this gives us two alternatives in the greater scheme of things.

    1) We build upon earlier examples, through the means of progression, possibly creating something a new whilst playing close attention to expressing the principles of Orthodox NS in a more modernised manner, this I would simply call "Beyond-NS?", basically representing a step forward in the evolutionary process making what adjustments are necessary in order to remain a serious political movement.

    ......or.......

    2)We just follow the examples expressed for the past 70 years & remain political dinosaurs through lack of vision & momentum thus harbouring the shallow belief that some day it will all pay off whilst remaining blind to the fact that current practices obviously aren't working, also ignoring the fact that NSDAP was innovative for it's time & therefore if anything is to realised it is to take an example from such past efforts, if not then there is being an impotent tool of politics, it is there but it has no impact on the collective.
    Last edited by Prussian; Sunday, December 26th, 2004 at 01:51 PM.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Prussian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, July 14th, 2005 @ 12:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Nordid+East Baltic
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    By the shore of the Baltic
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Politics
    Progressive Nationalism
    Posts
    663
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post AW: Re: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    I have a question, not specific to NS but relevant thereto, that I have pondered for some time.

    Is it acceptable, moral, ethical, etc. to mislead the masses of people in order to gain power, because one feels that they comprehend neither the true scope of one's political plan, nor their own long-term self interest, and thus would be better served by a benevolent dictatorship, so to speak? I refer to the general working people who do not understand global economics, political philosophy, long-term racial evolution, etc. and whose assets are spent in the short term rather than invested for the long term. The political program in question would mislead them in a benign way, in order to provide a more prosperous and secure long-term situation. Should one be permitted to mislead them if it is with good intentions and no malice aforethought, and the other alternative was to be quite honest with them and lose the election, be overthrown, whatever? By accurately representing a platform that can only be appreciated by the free-thinking few, one is almost certainly dooming the campaign to defeat, at least in our current political paradigm.
    Well thought out question & an interesting one.....

    I believe it is a matter of ethics & morality but then one has to weigh up the other side in knowing that if they are uneducated in the obvious areas of the political scope it is better from an ethical point to do what is necessary to secure a long term result rather then a short, in this act alone it is obvious to keep them unaware of long term outcome purely due to a lack of understanding.

    However I believe it is nothing unusual or new as this has been the practice of politics regardless of the ideology or system behind it, sometimes it is better that the collective are unaware but then what it comes down to is asking whether or not the agenda of the politics behind a state is justified in doing what is necessary, meaning do they do this for the better of the people or for the betterment of a few lousy corrupt politicians doing favours for their industrialist friends.

    But yes it all really comes down to motives, just like individual characters in life agendas in politics are greatly varied as well.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Prussian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, July 14th, 2005 @ 12:49 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Nordid+East Baltic
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    By the shore of the Baltic
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Politics
    Progressive Nationalism
    Posts
    663
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post AW: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    Let´s see what the inventor of National Socialism had to say about reformation endeavours:
    .........this is an interesting quote regarding reformation upon the Orthodox base & something I value in the sense of it's importance on matters of origin yet we also have to come to the conclusion that this was written during his time in prison long before the party showed any signs of political victory, over many years change was made accordingly to pursue political goals but at the same time attempting not to sell out the core founding principles.

    I believe this is a good example of how principles & change have to be a delicate balance to firstly hold to the original principle of purpose behind the ideology itself & secondly to obviously achieve what is desired politically.

    But this quote within itself is really a good representation into the thoughts of Adolf Hitler of the period, it is full of value & should not be disgarded yet at the same time we have to take note of latter examples of changing strategy to political goals.
    "Let your love towards life, be love towards your highest hope:
    and let your highest hope be the highest idea of life."
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche~

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    ogenoct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Last Online
    Monday, April 23rd, 2012 @ 06:58 AM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Location
    Moscow
    Gender
    Age
    45
    Politics
    National Futurism
    Religion
    Atheism
    Posts
    740
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Re: AW: Discussions into Progressive Reform of the Orthodox NS concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    Let´s see what the inventor of National Socialism had to say about reformation endeavours:
    Since when was Hitler the inventor of National Socialism? What about Maurice Barres?

    Constantin

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. On the Types of Discussions on the Forums
    By Bärin in forum The Hearth
    Replies: 107
    Last Post: Saturday, October 15th, 2016, 02:52 PM
  2. Discussions About Other Forums
    By Aeternitas in forum Rules & Announcements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Sunday, November 22nd, 2009, 07:15 AM
  3. Replies: 82
    Last Post: Tuesday, February 6th, 2007, 02:41 PM
  4. Further discussions of Mongoloid origins...
    By Test in forum Mongoloid
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: Thursday, December 16th, 2004, 06:48 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •