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Thread: Slavic Ancestry in Germany, Germans With Slavic Surnames, etc.

  1. #171
    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    @Aptrgangr you just repeat the same nonsense endlessly, you do have an anti East German agenda, you try to say it's less Germanic than the West,
    I do not have an anti-East agenda, the very opposite is the case, I enjoy being there any time, and I always buy food from eastern-Germany because it is excellent and I love the idea to support small German companies instead of big international ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    ignoring that in the West there was foreign input too.
    Actually I repeatedly mentiones the Celtic and Romanic influence that is present in the south-west-central of Germany. There is no native Slavic influence there though - like there is no Celtic and Romanic presence in the east.
    I grew up at a place that is called "farm of the Welsh" for some years...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    And you call yourself Germanic despite being part Irish, not Celtogermanic, so the same rules don't apply to you, hmm. eyes:
    I already explained that too, my Celtic ancestry is not much bigger than that of other Germanics too - anyway - being Irish does not mean being entirely of Celtic origin since Vikings once had conquered large parts of Ireland.
    Like I said, I clearly look different from an Irishman of predominantly Celtic origin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    It's clear to me 1. you are biased,
    I am. So are you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bärin View Post
    2. you don't even understand the word Germanic so my conversation with you ends here.
    I do understand it very well, I just say there is no need to sumamrize Germans of non-Germanic origin as Germanics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oski von Skadi
    I have a czech surname because my father was adopted by his stepdad.

    I'm English and German by blood with a slavic surname, does that make me a slav?
    I have a Germanic surname, the maiden mam eof my mom- does this make me German?
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  2. #172
    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post

    Actually I repeatedly mentiones the Celtic and Romanic influence that is present in the south-west-central of Germany. There is no native Slavic influence there though - like there is no Celtic and Romanic presence in the east.
    I grew up at a place that is called "farm of the Welsh" for some years...
    Yes - I note too the Suebi root; the original Suebi were from near the Baltic Coast in preRoman times - neighbours of the early Saxons (then) I assume. Swabia is certainly German (!) with, as you say, inevitably strong Celtic roots. We are surely forced to make a distinction between early Northern Germanics and the early Alpine peoples who were seriously Celtic! Obviously these northern Germanics and the early Celtics were related ( at least linguistically ) --- perhaps one might say , more so that the Slavic peoples in the east?eyes:

    Was perhaps the Welsh of 'your farm' the same word as the AngloSaxons used for " foreigner"; that's certainly what the Welsh were to the early Saxons

  3. #173
    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Yes - I note too the Suebi root; the original Suebi were from near the Baltic Coast in preRoman times - neighbours of the early Saxons (then) I assume.
    They landed at the southern Baltic shores, coming from that area that is Sweden now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Swabia is certainly German (!) with, as you say, inevitably strong Celtic roots.
    Yes, when the Suebi made it to today's Swabia the area already was inhabited.
    BTW, many of them made it to today's Spain and were absorbed by the native population there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    We are surely forced to make a distinction between early Northern Germanics and the early Alpine peoples who were seriously Celtic!
    The Swabians are part of the Alamanni, non-Germanic natives that wanted to join them were allowed to do so. We may not forget, much of today's Germany was conquered by Romans, they brought in settlers too.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...ce/archaeology
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Obviously these northern Germanics and the early Celtics were related ( at least linguistically ) --- perhaps one might say , more so that the Slavic peoples in the east?eyes:
    There is a big difference between towns having names that origin from the Celtic language, and those that were founded by Germanics. I remember a village named Faurndau, definitely not of Germanic origin but germanized.

    Here's a Swabian-English dictionary for the case you are interested:
    http://www.schwaebisch-englisch.de/con/voc.html
    Swabian is closer to the language of my forfather...better - mothers than today's Standard German.
    Wikipedia is available in Alamannic, but unfortunately this language/dialect is more and more lost. (I can speak it, but live in Chatti/Frankish lands...)
    http://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houptsyte

    Standard German has loanwords coming from Latin resp. Romanic languages, Celtic languages and Slavic languages, the bird Swabians call a Dischtelfink is called Stieglitz in Standard German, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Was perhaps the Welsh of 'your farm' the same word as the AngloSaxons used for " foreigner"; that's certainly what the Welsh were to the early Saxons
    Yes, it is the same word; Germanics called Romanic and Celtic people (and those having been romanized) Welsh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    Many Germans took over the Polish -ski in their surnames,
    Why did they do this? What German name of Germanic origin ending with
    "-ski" does exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    and many Germans have lived in what is now Polish territory before surnames were even mandatory.
    Yes of course they did, and there are enough Slavs that have German surnames too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    In earlier times surnames where documented by the church, a Polish priest would have written down a German name in Polish, and thus the name became "officially" Polish.
    Why should Polish priests write down names of Germans in order to make them Polish?
    Polonization started in the 20th century, it was politically motivated, not religiously.
    BTW - the Wends and Sorbs were Slavics different from Poles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    The name is in such instances not a good indicator, exactly because comming from a predominantly Slavic counrty like Poland.
    Names ending with -ny, - ski, - ic´, -ow, -czek, etc.pp are not exclusively Polish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    E.g. Polish names in the Ruhrpott are a better indication of Polish ancestry.
    Yes, but most Germans of Slavic origin have no Polish ancestors as far as I know. There is a difference between Germans that have Polish immigrants in their ancestry, and those having Oder-Spree-Elbe-Slavic ancestors. Latter were never attracted by the idea belonging to a greater Poland, nor by pan-Slawism.



    BTW: I am still waiting for evidence Stirpes has an anti-Germanic agenda, I want to write a complaint to the Swedish admin.
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  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aptrgangr View Post
    There is a difference between Germans that have Polish immigrants in their ancestry, and those having Oder-Spree-Elbe-Slavic ancestors. Latter were never attracted by the idea belonging to a greater Poland, nor by pan-Slawism.[
    There was a small section of opinion among the Sorbs advocating union with Czechoslovakia immediately after the War, but it wasn't successful. Mind you, I only read abou tit in Russian sources...
    BTW: I am still waiting for evidence Stirpes has an anti-Germanic agenda, I want to write a complaint to the Swedish admin.
    Now then, I ALREADY said that this wasn't the place for such discussions, so drop it!

  5. #175
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    If we're going back that far, to who had 'Germanic' or 'Slavic' ancestors centuries or more ago, wouldn't it make more sense to just consider by subrace? If you've got 2 people who look like eachother, it stands to reason they were at some point in history more closely related than those who look differently
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  6. #176
    Senior Member Aptrgangr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    There was a small section of opinion among the Sorbs advocating union with Czechoslovakia immediately after the War, but it wasn't successful. Mind you, I only read abou tit in Russian sources...
    Yes, a very small section.
    Like there were some FRG politicans that wanted to evacuate Western Berlin and build a new on in the Lübeburger Heide...
    In general most having Slavic ancestors are ashamed of it, in the west you have Germanic being ashamed of their Germanic heritage, and do their best to make it forgotten, I, for example, was not given a German(ic) foreame, actually noone of my cousins/close relatives has a non-Roman/Biblical name.
    I noticed those having some Slavic ancestors are exta keen to appear German.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    Now then, I ALREADY said that this wasn't the place for such discussions, so drop it!
    Aye Captain - sorry.

    [now, where is that smiley with that saluting Private...]
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  7. #177
    Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    We do all know which are the predominantly Germanic countries in Europe; Ireland and Wales are not featured on the lsiting because they are thought to be primarily Celtic still; Scotland is a complex mix but the Angle settlements in the southern regions were considerable and signifcant. The German lands in the east is clearly complex with its extensive Slavic contact over many centuries - but it appears to me to be the language and custom which primarily determines the resultant cultural identity. Many people living in the 'Slavic' north could easily be misidentified were it not for their language - the Nazis were in no doubt about that for at least some of the population at the time. We need to read the history correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    The German lands in the east is clearly complex with its extensive Slavic contact over many centuries - but it appears to me to be the language and custom which primarily determines the resultant cultural identity. Many people living in the 'Slavic' north could easily be misidentified were it not for their language - the Nazis were in no doubt about that for at least some of the population at the time. We need to read the history correctly.

    It shouldn't be that complicated and it wasn't.
    You think anyone would had ever mistaken my Grandfather, a Keltic Nordid of Swabian extraction, and my Grandmother, a Corded Nordid (or a Hallsatt. I don't have a young photo of her), to be ethnic Poles or Ukrainians? Heck no!


    The real complication was trying to identify the descendants of the Medieval Germans who colonized the region. Most of them had been fully Slavocized, and forgotten their German heritage and language.
    It was thought by the Germans, that the Nordids of the region, were in fact the descendants of these Medieval Colonists, or the Teutonic, thus making it perfectly acceptable to ''Germanize" them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    We do all know which are the predominantly Germanic countries in Europe; Ireland and Wales are not featured on the lsiting because they are thought to be primarily Celtic still; Scotland is a complex mix but the Angle settlements in the southern regions were considerable and signifcant. The German lands in the east is clearly complex with its extensive Slavic contact over many centuries - but it appears to me to be the language and custom which primarily determines the resultant cultural identity. Many people living in the 'Slavic' north could easily be misidentified were it not for their language - the Nazis were in no doubt about that for at least some of the population at the time. We need to read the history correctly.


    This is true. If I spoke some French and Spanish, I imagine some whacko would be under the assumption that I'm a blue-eyed Spaniard.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNt20kHy3Hg

    Language is a bit tied to identity. It's like the above video, were an German-American actress plays a Russian Mail Order Bride. Everyone thought she was an ethnic Russian!

    (Even though anyone who knows a little bit about phenotypes is that her look is incredibly rare in Russia. Nevertheless, all it took was a fake accent to persuade most people. I don't think the National Socialists were wrong to assume that appearance is tied to race. Though the truth be known, most people tend to identify race through culture and language. If you think that's bad, there are a few people who even dismiss Taxonomy as being pseduo science...)

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordOfTheVistula View Post
    If we're going back that far, to who had 'Germanic' or 'Slavic' ancestors centuries or more ago, wouldn't it make more sense to just consider by subrace? If you've got 2 people who look like eachother, it stands to reason they were at some point in history more closely related than those who look differently


    Because there's no such thing as harmonious mixing? Back then, when a German man married a Polish women, their offspring would had married Germans, Germans and more Germans, the Alpinid-Slavic look ultimately would be suppressed or complement the German phenotype.

    But than again, you're more than welcomed to find those Polish coal miners in the Rhineland

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossi View Post
    Before more nonsense is written in this thread, think of the following situation.
    Mr. Podolski is a Polak who moved to Germany. He marries a German woman, who gives birth to a son. The son is raised in German culture and language. His surname is Podolski, like his father's. Yet he's half German. So Podolski Jr. grows up, gets married to a German woman. She makes him a son whose surname will be, that's right, Podolski. He's raised as a German. Now Podolski the IIIrd grows up too, marries a German woman. And the story repeats itself endlessly. Podolski the 100th will have a Slavic surname like his Polak ancestor, but will he be a Polak? Let's be realistic. He will be a German with insignificant Polish ancestry.

    Now just replace Podolski with Schmidt and imagine that a German with this name lives in Russia and marries a Russian woman, raises his kids as Russians. In the end, Schmidt the 100th will be Russki and the only German thing about him will be his surname. That's actually how "German" Russians take advantage of the system calling themselves "Aussiedler" just to move to my country and leech off money from Germans. So cut it with the "Germans are Slav" nonsense. A German is a German if the majority of his ethnic background is German and he lives by our language and culture and he is racially compatible, regardless whether a few of his ancestors from centuries ago were Slavs, Celts or Scandinavians. The only pure German is our beer.

    That's not true! I think some of your beer factories are owned by non-Germans

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    Just I read that 25% of the Germans had Slavic ancestry. But this seems
    rather exaggerated. In a lot of German regions (before 1800) never Slavic
    immigrants had entered: East-Frisia, Oldenburg, Schleswick-Holstein,
    Westphalen, Harz, Rhenia, Thuringha and Baden-Wuertenberg. Those areas
    are typically Germanic.

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    Many of the millions of Germans expelled from Central and Eastern Europe will have a Slavic ancestors.

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