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Thread: Slavic Ancestry in Germany, Germans With Slavic Surnames, etc.

  1. #41
    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bocian
    Galicia had already belonged to Poland in the 11th century, including a tiny settlement which might have been Lwow, therefore, they were simply re-acquiring their lands, in the 14th.

    So, to whom had the lands belonged before the 11th century?


    As for Lithuania, it wasn't anything even remotely similar or comparable to Germany, since Lithuania was an equal partner in the Commonwealth...Poland-Lithuania ring a bell?

    Prior to the marital union, Poland had been encroaching upon Lithuania militarily and for putatively religious reasons.


    2)Germany invaded Poland, not the other way around, Germany lost the war, Poland was on the 'winning side'. Ever hear of Debellatio?

    If Poland was a 'winner,' why didn't anyone speak up when the Soviets took the eastern regions? Poland was just a pawn in the hands of the major powers, and had been merely a pretense for Britain's war against Germany from the very beginning.


    3)Lwow and the Eastern territories were stolen by the Soviets, we were 'allies' remember?
    It was the Soviets who were mainly responsible for what the new map looks like today.

    I recapitulate: if all of you were Allies, why did no one protest Soviet-forced border changes?


    anyone who wants a massive border change and displace millions of people, today, is either a child, or completely insane.

    Will you tell Ross this?

    Despite Polish antipathy towards Germans and vice versa, Russia and the USSR have done everything to Poles that the Germans have done, and then some, yet you don't seem to display the same contempt towards Russian irredentism that you do towards the German counterpart. This in spite of the fact that while Russian Poland was Russian in political name only, German 'Poland' was actually majority German in most places.

  2. #42
    Account Inactive bocian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    So, to whom had the lands belonged before the 11th century?
    Definitely to Slavic tribes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Prior to the marital union, Poland had been encroaching upon Lithuania militarily and for putatively religious reasons.
    Nothing compared to what the Germans were doing, and again this was a direct result of colonization and Germanization in the West. We're going in circles. Put it this way, had the Germans succeeded with their attempts at expansion into Lithuania, there probably wouldnt be neither a Lithuania or Lithuanians today, just like with Prussians. Now do you see the difference between Polish and German 'Christianization'?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    If Poland was a 'winner,' why didn't anyone speak up when the Soviets took the eastern regions?
    You can ask your blood brothers the British, French and Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Poland was just a pawn in the hands of the major powers, and had been merely a pretense for Britain's war against Germany from the very beginning.
    Well, it's difficult not to be a pawn, when you have just recovered your freedom after 123 years, have not a single friend on your border, have just successfully defeated the Red Army, and are desperately looking for a 'friend' in the west. Britain and France seemed a lot better than Germany and USSR.

    Why is it that the Brits didn't attack right away?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    I recapitulate: if all of you were Allies, why did no one protest Soviet-forced border changes?
    Cowardice, socialist governments/parties, ummm....because they were allies, and Poland was paralyzed while the USSR was the most powerful military machine in Europe. On whose 'good side' would you want to be on?

    If by that question you mean Poland, then you better believe that the millions of expelled citizens protested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Will you tell Ross this?
    Ross is an adult, I am in no position to tell him anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Despite Polish antipathy towards Germans and vice versa, Russia and the USSR have done everything to Poles that the Germans have done,
    I have never denied this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    , yet you don't seem to display the same contempt towards Russian irredentism that you do towards the German counterpart
    .

    Me personally. Most Poles have basically the same feelings towards both Russians and Germans. However, having met many Russians, talked to them, knowing how much they suffered, seeing the similarities and culture etc. Naturally I identify with my Slavic family more. Russians don't throw around words like 'sub-human' when referring to Poles, unlike Germans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    This in spite of the fact that while Russian Poland was Russian in political name only,
    true

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    German 'Poland' was actually majority German in most places.
    So if Detroit is inhabited by a majority of Negroes, should it belong to Africa? If Kosovo is majority Albanian it should belong to Albania?

    Germans shouldn't have been there in the first place, the Soviets and her allies decided the new map, Germany lost the war, end of story.

    We've discussed this already, and we're going in circles.
    Last edited by bocian; Wednesday, December 29th, 2004 at 03:17 AM.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by bocian
    Definitely to Slavic tribes.

    Obviously. I was asking if it was under Polish rule before the 11th century.


    You can ask your blood brothers the British, French and Americans.

    ?


    Why is it that the Brits didn't attack right away?

    Attack Germany? Probably because they had bitten off more than they could chew by declaring war on Germany? Note that they once again had to enlist Jewish assistance to sucker the Americans into the war, to bail themselves out.


    If by that question you mean Poland, then you better believe that the millions of expelled citizens protested.

    No, I was referring to the Allies who in fact showed no concern for Poland's fate. Poland was not really an 'Ally' in any meaningful sense, so I don't see how they were entitled to enjoy the 'victor's spoils' by expelling German civilians.


    Ross is an adult, I am in no position to tell him anything.

    anyone who wants a massive border change and displace millions of people, today, is either a child, or completely insane.

    Am I therefore to conclude that you believe Ross is insane?


    Naturally I identify with my Slavic family more. Russians don't throw around words like 'sub-human' when referring to Poles, unlike Germans.

    Hey, if eastern Germany is Slavic, then shouldn't you identify with them?

    For people who identify with your 'Slavic' family, you guys talk quite a bit, whether serious or not, about partitioning Ukraine.

  4. #44
    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    No, I was referring to the Allies who in fact showed no concern for Poland's fate. Poland was not really an 'Ally' in any meaningful sense, so I don't see how they were entitled to enjoy the 'victor's spoils' by expelling German civilians.
    You're babbling again Stribog.

    Here's one instance:

    Poles fought all over Europe, in the middle East, north Africa, and the eastern front, in the battle of Britain.

    We sure as hell did more than the French.

    Why wasn't Poland a meaningful ally? Please explain.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    You're babbling again Stribog.

    Here's one instance:

    Poles fought all over Europe, in the middle East, north Africa, and the eastern front, in the battle of Britain.

    We sure as hell did more than the French.

    Why wasn't Poland a meaningful ally? Please explain.
    Poland was a pawn caught in the middle, like Romania.

    My point was that if Poland was really so important, Britain a) would have declared war on the Soviets, who annexed the larger portion of Poland, as well as on the Germans
    and b) would have opposed Soviet annexation of eastern Polish regions at the end of the war

  6. #46
    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    LOL

    What a comment...I can't get over it.

    Both my grandfathers fought the Germans...one in the east, and the other in the west.

    Why weren't they entitled to the victor's spoils??? They were victors, after all. And guess what, they fought on the allies' side. I though I'd mention that just in case you thought there was a third block they could've fought for.

    LOL

  7. #47
    Account Inactive bocian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Obviously. I was asking if it was under Polish rule before the 11th century.
    Probably under Piast rule. Definitely not Ukrainian, there was no such thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Attack Germany? Probably because they had bitten off more than they could chew by declaring war on Germany? Note that they once again had to enlist Jewish assistance to sucker the Americans into the war, to bail themselves out.
    You say that Britain was desperate for war, do you know when Britain actually began fighting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    No, I was referring to the Allies who in fact showed no concern for Poland's fate. Poland was not really an 'Ally' in any meaningful sense, so I don't see how they were entitled to enjoy the 'victor's spoils' by expelling German civilians.
    Poland was an Ally, it simply got fucked up the ass by it's allies. Get it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Am I therefore to conclude that you believe Ross is insane?
    What does Ross have to do with any of this? Are you obsessed with Ross?


    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Hey, if eastern Germany is Slavic, then shouldn't you identify with them?
    Most are no longer culturally Slavic, only by blood. Unfortunately, most have been thoroughly Germanized. Culture is far more important to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    For people who identify with your 'Slavic' family, you guys talk quite a bit, whether serious or not, about partitioning Ukraine.
    I have never suggested anything of the sort. You're confusing me with Ross.
    Last edited by bocian; Wednesday, December 29th, 2004 at 04:06 AM.

  8. #48
    Account Inactive bocian's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    Poland was a pawn caught in the middle, like Romania.

    My point was that if Poland was really so important, Britain a) would have declared war on the Soviets, who annexed the larger portion of Poland, as well as on the Germans
    and b) would have opposed Soviet annexation of eastern Polish regions at the end of the war
    Pawn or not, Poles fought on every front, and, as Polak pointed out, did more than the French, and helped save Britain. You should read "The Kosciuszko Squadron" written by Brits.

    Please explain why they weren't an ally?
    Last edited by bocian; Wednesday, December 29th, 2004 at 04:45 AM.

  9. #49
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    dirk nowtzki, a german draftee of the dallas mavericks (NBA) is most likely a german slav.



    andreas wisniewski, a german actor born in berlin, is definately another one.

    to me they all look pretty "extreme nordic" if there was such a thing

  10. #50
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    Post AW: Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by yamato
    dirk nowtzki, a german draftee of the dallas mavericks (NBA) is most likely a german slav.
    Actually, all that his family name suggests is that the oldest male ancestor in his paternal line at the time when family names were introduced was Slavic.:anieyes
    He can be 15/16 German and still have a Slavic family name.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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