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Thread: Slavic Ancestry in Germany, Germans With Slavic Surnames, etc.

  1. #21
    Account Inactive CrystleMoons's Avatar
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    Slavic and the Saxons, and the origin of Prussian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Brandt
    Exactly! It is a definition which was invented in the early 19th century. They use this term to claim germanic land, by declaring it populated by "slavs". they never are able to explain what a slav is, but they know for sure that in central Germany and Austria "Slavs" settled". Ask them "How do you know? What evidence do you have?" and they will answer you "From the Names". :
    They will then start playing around with names, drawing the most crazy conclusions. It's like babby-babbling - they chew on a name of a city so long, untill it finaly sounds "slavic". "Brandenburg" and "Graz" are originaly "Slavic" just as much as Bautzen. Any word with a "z" in it, has to be "slavic". Don't ask me why, because I am incapable of explaning the Fantasys of lunatics.
    All you have to do is check the Avatar of this "Slav" - "Karentanija" (Kärnten). Deluded Lunatics with dreams of grandeure, holding claims on our land.
    And, so Schulze, Schmit(dz), or Schultze, and many others prove what? You know what I suggest?

    The older your information is in historical documentation the BETTER and most definite it will be, and become!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eikþyrnir
    Actually, that is more reasonable than the opposite. It is could well have been that the proto-Nordid developed in the same area as proto-germanics, the distribution of Nordids and Germanics would suggest this, infact.
    Well, Nordids are a type and Germanics, Slavs etc. an ethnic category. Nordids existed long before the ethnic formation of both and the old Slavs and for a long time the Slavic upper class were as Nordid, or even more Nordid than Germanics, that was recognized even by people like Guenther, Eickstedt etc.

    What we see in later times is the rise of more infantile-brachycephalic types both by mixture and as important, or even more important, certain (contra-) selective trends in both groups, though in the Germanic core area not as (North Sea region/Scandinavia) strong as in the wide Slavic areas.

  3. #23
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    Post Slavic Ancestry in Germany

    from http://gcjm.dyndns.org/sw/inhalt11/d01.htm

    piefke said in another forum:
    So, in the light of the above evidence, the main factor in germanization of the region east of the Elbe and Saale, was not a Germanic colonisation but long process of assimilation of local Slavic population.Taking into consideration the survival of Lusatian Sorbs, the process is still not completed.Hence, the modern German population has a substantial Slavic component.And in the case of the Lands that once formed East Germany, the population there is a Slavo-Germanic mixture, most likely with the Slavic elements being dominant [174] , a fact that probably many Germans would not wish to admit. Nevertheless, a modern German is not less German regardless of some of his ancestors beingSlavic. Neither would anysane person question the right of Germans to the territory east of Elbe and Saale where 98 percent of population feels they are German.

    It has to be admitted, that the precise estimation for Polabian contribution to the emergence of German nation appears to be extremely difficult if not impossible.This is so because to set up precise criteria in such a research is unfeasible.The mixing of population in Central Europe was ongoing process for almost a millennium and genetic criteria are unapplicable. The linguistic and cultural criteria could be applied only at the time of migration, andthe written records are incomplete and often inconclusive.It also should be stressed, that since the Middle Ages, besides the relatively large scale germanization, a process of slavization was also taking place in Central Europe.Numerous Germans settled in Bohemia, Poland and Hungary; and for centuries they all lived and worked peacefully side by side.In the course of time many Germans were assimilated by local populations. Not surprisingly the German surnames are not uncommon among todays Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians. [175] Although the whole germanization issue seems to be of no great importance, there are reasons why it should be addressed. For generations, many German historians tried to convince themeselves and everyone else, that the Polabian Slavs vanished from the land entirely soon after the conquest, or better, yet they never existed.To large extent they were successful.For example, while the Celtic heritage of Britain is widely acknowledged, the Polabian Slavs are hardly known outside academic circles.Also, a common understanding of the shared ethnic and cultural heritage in this part of Europe might have a wider implications.If the people of Central Europe had been always aware of that, such terrible things as happened there this century, might not have taken place at all.
    Do you agree with piefke?
    Last edited by Vitor; Friday, December 24th, 2004 at 03:23 PM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Deling's Avatar
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    It's nothing new, exactly. Germany's historical heartland has been Slavic Böhmen. Germany as a state was based on Prussia, which was an eastern-oriented state with a Baltic language.

    Perhaps the problem is language: In English GERMANY makes one think of historical Germania. In continental European languages, "Germany" is Tyskland, Deutschland, Saksa a.s.o. No references to the mythical Germania. And Germany isn't Germania, it's probably the most non-nationstate in Europe's modern history; divided in regions, in ethnics. Only language is rather universal.
    But Germany isn't a Slavic nation by any standards. It's, however, not the ethnical anti-thesis of the eastern Slavic lands.

  5. #25
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    Post Re: Slavic Germany

    From a racial point of view the Nordic type(s) is common in all German regions, though in different numbers and the most "un-Nordic" regions were in the East, f.e. Silesia.

    The other areas formerly inhabited by Slavs are as Nordic as other regions away from the Germanic core area in Germany.
    Its difficult to estimate the relation of colonists to assimilated Slavs, because the only type not strongly represented in Germany before the Slavs were Osteuropids, either in their West- and East Baltid form, but those types didnt dominated all Slavic groups that much, especially not the old Slavs and their upper class.

    In fact I do agree that it is rather unimportant if someone of an integrable type was 1000 years ago a Slav or Germanic, in fact those two ethnic groups were formed out of different parts by themselves either.
    More important is how they took over the customs and traditions, and how integrable they were and are.

    But I wouldnt underestimate the destruction of former structures by the colonisation and the influx of Germanic/German settlers.

    Just think, in some regions of East Prussia Dinarid types were dominant because of settlers from Salzburg, in other regions French Nordid-Alpinid-Mediterranid dominated because of the Hugenotts, and some regions in the Eastern areas (Ostgebiete) of Germany were dominated by types and names common in Niedersachsen etc...
    So the impact was rather strong, though there are huge regional differences. From a racial point of view rather great differences inside the Slavic population before colonisation too...
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    Post AW: Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Deling
    Germany's historical heartland has been Slavic Böhmen.
    What bullshit is this? Good that this is the Trashcan section

    Nobody denies medieval Slavic assimilation in Eastern Germany. The alleged extent, however, which continously is brought up by Pan-Slavists (basically Poles) to make claims on German territory is so ridiculous that it must be the result of a heavy inferiority complex.
    I can understand that many Slavic nations (again, basically Poles) are envious of Germany´s achievements and therefore want a piece of the cake but the old trick of creating disunion to fight Germans with Germans, which was invented by the Romans thousands of years ago, has worn off. After all this constructed clashes of Prussians vs. Bavarians, catholics vs. protestants, or in modern times young vs. old, east vs. west we surely are not so dumb to misunderstand the motivation behind such claims.
    Last edited by Zyklop; Sunday, December 26th, 2004 at 10:13 AM.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


  7. #27
    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Post Re: AW: Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    What bullshit is this? Good that this is the Trashcan section

    Nobody denies medieval Slavic assimilation in Eastern Germany. The alleged extent, however, which continously is brought up by Pan-Slavists (basically Poles) to make claims on German territory is so ridiculous that it must be the result of a heavy inferiority complex.
    I can understand that many Slavic nations (again, basically Poles) are envious of Germany´s achievements and therefore want a piece of the cake but the old trick of creating disunion to fight Germans with Germans, which was invented by the Romans thousands of years ago, has worn off. After all this constructed clashes of Prussians vs. Bavarians, catholics vs. protestants, or in modern times young vs. old, east vs. west we surely are not so dumb to misunderstand the motivation behind such claims.

    I'm still laughing at your ridiculous suggestion that Slavic names in Germany do not equate to Slavic lineages (in other words, blood).

    Bwahahaha....

  8. #28
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    Post AW: Re: AW: Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Polak
    I'm still laughing at your ridiculous suggestion that Slavic names in Germany do not equate to Slavic lineages (in other words, blood).
    Please provide a source

    Bwahahaha....
    Aren´t you the exile-Pole who gets his informations about the social situation in middle-Germany out of tabloid magazines?
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


  9. #29
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    Post AW: Slavic Germany

    The slaves that were assimilated in the german nation were some hundred years mixt with the rest of the there living germanic population, so the slaves had many words from germanic herritage, like "mähren", "slesia", "ranen" and the celtic word "bohemia".
    At the end, this slavic population with partly germanic herritage were assimilated, because their number was lower, than these of the germanic re-settlers.
    The only places, where higher numbers of slaves were living was in lusicia. So there lives the slavic sorbs till today. Regions like the lower saxon "wendland" and the pommeranian island "rügen" had about some hundred years partically slavic population, but was still germanic-german dominant.
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  10. #30
    Account Inactive Polak's Avatar
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    Post Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Slavic Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    Please provide a source

    Aren´t you the exile-Pole who gets his informations about the social situation in middle-Germany out of tabloid magazines?

    Please provide a source stating that Slavic names in Germany are simply a cultural phenomenon.

    Or better still, just explain to me how it is that there are so many Slavic names in Germany, but, according to you, very little Slavic blood.

    I don't get it, and I hazard a guess that many people on this forum are similarly befuddled by your dubious logic.

    Oh where did this Slavic blood go to in Germany? Did it evaporate? Why is it that Slavic names don't, at the very least, equate to the amound of Slavic blood in Germany???

    Go on, finally explain you theories...I'd love to know how you came to these conclusions.

    Did Slavic genes get swamped by Germanic genes, and then somehow evaporated, even though Slavic names were passed on???

    Hmmm..not possible, because if a name is passed on, then that indicates reproduction...and genes are not lost if someone reproduces. See, that's biologically impossible.

    So please, Zyklop, entertain us some more...

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