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Thread: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

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    Post Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    Does mass immigration boost the economy of the host nation?
    Last edited by Northern Paladin; Tuesday, December 21st, 2004 at 09:52 AM.

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    No, it doesn't. Labour shortage encourages investment in labour-saving technology. Hence the Japanese have the world's most advanced robotics industry, and why Australia would flatten a large section of the American agricultural industry if there was a free-trade agreement.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Ripper
    No, it doesn't. Labour shortage encourages investment in labour-saving technology. Hence the Japanese have the world's most advanced robotics industry, and why Australia would flatten a large section of the American agricultural industry if there was a free-trade agreement.
    Right. Not to mention that most of the time you need cheap workers for a short time, but they usually stay forever...

    And not to forget the situation on the job market, the wages, which will suffer very much from too much (mass) immigration.

    Finally not to speak about the possible result if its about crime, social problems, schools, quarters etc...

    So mass immigration is (if for anybody) just good for the plutocracy if they want to crush unions and social structures, but for almost nothing else with the exception of very special situations.
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    I posted this on another part of this forum, and since it is relevant to the topic I'll repost it here.

    This is an essay I wrote for an English class last spring. I know, it ignores the jewish problem, but it had to be turned in to a liberal proffesor for a grade.


    Importing Poverty



    Earlier this year President Bush came out with his guest worker program. The idea behind it was to, “match willing foreign workers with willing U.S. employers when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs” (O’Meara). His program would allow illegal aliens to remain in the country for up to three years if some one offers them employment and allows for more foreign workers to be brought in if an employer was willing to sponsor them. However, this comes at a time when 2.5 million people have lost their jobs since 2001 and the average salary for U.S. workers has fallen from $44,570 to 35,410 (O’Meara). Naturally this has led to speculation behind President Bush’s motives.

    Since the revising of our immigration laws in 1965 America has had a level of immigration that has been unprecedented in its history. According to the Census Bureau, there are over 31 million foreign born people, or 11% of the total population, living in America (U.S. Census). And further more there are more than 68 million more people living in this country than in 1970 despite the fact that native born Americans on average have a below replacement fertility level (CFIS). Out of the 31 million foreign born people living in America, an estimated 8-12 million of them are in the country illegally, or about one third of the foreign born population (CFIS). Which means that the number of illegal aliens roughly coincides with the total number of unemployed, which is 8,774,000 (Bureau of Labor Statistics).



    2

    Seven years after the passage of the 1965 immigration laws that led to the current levels of mass immigration our unemployment hit a record high of over five million (Bureau of Labor Statistics). And despite a minor down turn the two following years it has not only stayed at over five million, but has averaged around seven and a half million ever since (Bureau of Labor Statistics). When this is coupled with the fact that since 2001 the average American salary has dropped by $9000, and the fact that since 1973 the adjusted income of the average American has dropped by 10% (Goad 119), it leads to some disturbing conclusions. Modern mass immigration in general and President Bush’s guest worker program in particular are nothing more than a cynical attempt to drive down American wages while spouting platitudes about economic recovery and the value of diversity. This proposal is about driving down the wages of Americans for the sake of big business and the motives are no different than the motives that gave us slavery not to long ago. The reasons are to create a vast supply of cheap labor and it is even better if these laborers come from impoverished areas, and when you throw in the fact that our new immigrants come from very different nations than most native born Americans it makes it very easy to play divide and conquer.

    The motives behind the guest worker program are no different than the motives behind slavery. The idea is to replace an independent middle class with a dependent servile class. The main difference is that rather than dragging the new laboring class here in chains, they will be imported and kept in line through their poverty. The only people who benefited from slavery were the five percent of the population that owned slaves, the rest had priced them selves out of the market by being a “free” laborer in a slave based economy (Goad 73). With President Bush’s guest worker program the only people who will benefit will be those who stand to profit by reducing working and middle class Americans to a third world standard of living. The majority of Americans don’t want to be responsible for importing people in slave like conditions, nor do they want to be displaced and replaced in their own country. But this will be the inevitable consequence of Bush’s guest worker program.

    The idea behind creating a surplus of labor is very basic economics; it is a question of supply and demand. As a quantity of a good or service increases the price will decrease. There are several determinants of supply, resource prices, technology, taxes and subsidies, prices of other goods, price expectations, and the number of sellers in the market (McConnell and Brue 48). If one of these changes then a change in supply will occur, which will effect the supply of every good and service. One example of a change in supply is if the demand is constant but the supply increases. This would create a new equilibrium of supply and demand with a lower equilibrium price and a higher equilibrium quantity, price and quantity are inversely related (McConnell and Brue 52). "Price is an obstacle from the standpoint of the consumer, who is on the paying end. The higher the price, the less the consumer will buy” (McConnell and Brue 47). Big business, who is the consumer of the labor services of its employees has a self serving interest in lowering the wages that it has to pay. If America can be flooded with people who will create more of a supply of labor than there is a demand available, then the market will drastically reduce the price for labor. And this is the reason why we have had an average of seven and a half million unemployed since the passage of the 1965 immigration act. President Bush’s guest worker program is nothing but an attempt to flood the market with cheap labor in order to find the lowest common denominator in regards to wages.

    Flooding the market with an infinite supply of labor for a finite amount of
    work is bad enough, but when those workers come from impoverished
    countries to begin with it makes the problem even worse. Prior to 1965 our immigration came almost exclusively from Europe, where standards of living were similar to in the United States. This was enforced by the Chinese exclusion Act of the late 1800’s, which was passed after a series of riots in California protesting the use of Chinese labor in near slave like conditions to artificially lower wages. Afterwards the national origin system of the 1920’s and the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 continued to keep close control over immigration (CFIS). However today, according to the U.S. Census, around 83% of foreign born people living in America are from other areas and these are usually some of the poorest areas on Earth (Census). Latin America provides over half of our foreign born residents with sixteen million people and Asia provides another quarter of those with eight million (Census). The wages and standards of living in most of Latin America and Asia are far lower than that of the United States. As an example there is Mexico, since the United States shares a common border with Mexico they supply a large part of foreign born residents and most of the illegal residents. According to the CIA World Facts Book, Mexico has a per capita GDP of $8,900 and about 40% of its population lives below poverty level (CIA). While in the United States the per capita GDP is $36,300 and only 12% of the population lives below poverty level (CIA). With the importation of cheap labor from areas that have third world living conditions, how long will it take before those conditions are replicated here?

    The law of supply states that, “As price rises, the quantity supplied rises; as price falls, the quantity supplied falls” (McConnell and Brue 47). When big business offers wages that are higher than those paid in the third world it will create a huge supply of laborers from those areas that are willing to accept those conditions. And as more and more wages are being driven down below the level needed to provide basic needs, less native born Americans are willing to take those jobs. This is the real meaning behind the claims that “immigrants only take jobs that Americans won’t do”. What it really means is that immigrants will accept wages and living conditions that are unacceptable to Americans. And when people who will accept those kind of working conditions make up a large part of the workforce then it will drive down the wages for everyone.

    The other major reason behind the guest worker program is simply to divide and conquer. If the new immigrants that are driving wages down are ethnically and linguistically very different than native born Americans, then it is relatively easy to keep them divided against each other rather than seeing the source of the problem. Immigrants rather than big business get blamed for lowered wages and standards of living because they are easier to identify. While Americans who have a problem with their way of life being destroyed are cynically accused of racism. In the ultimate act of irony, immigrants are often taught to view the same middle class America that they were brought over here to eliminate as their oppressors. The fact that working and middle class America does not have the power to oppress any one is often ignored.

    6

    There are two main arguments for the guest worker program; the first is that it will lead to economic recovery and the second is to accuse its opponents of being racist. The economic argument is absolutely false. The only Americans that stand to benefit from this program are those that are in a position to profit off of the sharp drop in wages. And the open ended nature of the program insures that practically all Americans that aren’t in that group will have to compete for jobs with people who are used to making $8,900 a year or less. Starting a jobless post 9/11 economic recovery by announcing that the borders will be thrown open while there are almost nine million unemployed in this country is stupid. Claiming that it will improve the economy is down right dishonest.

    The racism charges on the other hand, no matter how cynically applied, will be much more effective in getting the opponents of the guest worker program to shut up. And that is what they are designed to do, shut people up. Of course those charges will only be made against those Americans that want to preserve their way of living, and the people who take advantage of third world living conditions to produce slave like working conditions will do most of the accusing. There’s quite a bit of profit to be made in manipulating the poor in order to eliminate the middle class. Though very manipulative, this will be the most effective measure to stifle debate on the guest worker program. And with so many people looking at being unemployed or under employed, the supporters of President Bush’s program need to stifle as much debate as possible.

    Bush’s guest worker program is nothing but an attempt to drive down wages and reduce most Americans to a standard of living that is equivalent to slavery. There is nothing in it that will benefit the average American in any way. With almost nine million unemployed, does this country really need to match up “willing foreign workers with willing U.S. employers”? The motives behind this program are blatantly transparent, and the fact that it is being promoted by an American president just shows how much influence that big business has over our government. If this program is passed then America will go from being the only super power to a third world nation in a few years. Most Americans do not want to be displaced and replaced in their own country. Most Americans don’t want their standard of living reduced to the lowest common denominator of the third world. Most Americans don’t want to be responsible for importing a new servile underclass in near slave like conditions. President Bush’s guest worker program is nothing more than attempt to exploit the poverty of other parts of the world in order to drive down wages here. There is really nothing more to it than that, and any claims otherwise should be looked at with utter cynicism and contempt.



    Works Cited



    U.S. Census. American Fact Finders. 5 Apr 2004. 3Apr 2004.

    http://factfinders.census.gov/home/....html?_lang=eng

    Central Intelligence Agency. World Fact Book. 18 Dec 2003. 3Apr 2004.

    http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

    Center for Immigration Studies. Common Topics in Immigration. 24 Mar 2004.

    3 Apr 2004. http://www.cis.org/

    Department of Labor. Bureau of Labor Statistics. 5Apr 2004. 3 Apr 2004.

    http://www.bls.gov/

    Goad, Jim. The Redneck Manifesto. Touchstone. 1997.

    McConnell and Brue. Macroeconomics 15th ed. McGraw-Hill. 2002.

    O’Meara, Kelly Patricia. “Do Borders Matter To President Bush”. The Nation.

    18 Feb 2004. 6 Mar 2004. http://web.lexis-nexis.com
    So Yacub knew that all he had to do was make a man unlike any other man on this Earth and because he would be different he would attract all other people. Then he could teach this man a science call tricknology....
    ....So Yacub turned to his uncle and said, "When I grow up I'm going to make a man who will rule you." And Yacub's uncle said,"What can you make other than that which will cause bloodshed and wickedness in the land?"


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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    Mexicans bring poverty, disease, crime, and higher taxes for working- and upper-class whites. Yet this influx of 8,000 immigrants per day is welcomed by our jewish-controlled, corrupt, government. God bless America

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    I have never come across any credible econometric studies offering evidence that mass immigration boosts the economy generally. There may be some sectors (e.g. the housing/construction sector) that see an uptick in activity as a direct or indirect consequence of mass immigration, but when this is set against the enormous burden that immigrants place on social services, the net impact of mass immigration on economic welfare is surely neutral at best, and more likely negative.

    In any case, the distributive effects of mass immigration (e.g. increasing the number of low-wage workers, and thus competition for native citizens seeking low-wage jobs, to the benefit of corporate managers and shareholders) would render this disastrous policy normatively undesirable on economic grounds alone.

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    For Sweden, I've seen the figure 240 Billion Swedish Kronor (about 26 Billion dollars) as the total cost for immigration during the average year. This is 1/3 of the total State Budget.

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Ripper
    No, it doesn't. Labour shortage encourages investment in labour-saving technology. Hence the Japanese have the world's most advanced robotics industry, and why Australia would flatten a large section of the American agricultural industry if there was a free-trade agreement.
    Indeed, by keeping industries such as agriculture labour-intensive where they would otherwise become more capital intensive, mass immigration in the long-term discourages the development of domestic high-technology sectors that could provide higher-wage jobs. That obviously has negative distributional consequences, as well as negating the broader economic benefits associated with technological innovation.

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    BTW I've moved this thread to the Economics forum, as it doesn't really belong in the lounge.

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    Post Re: Does Mass Immigration Boost The Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agrippa
    Right. Not to mention that most of the time you need cheap workers for a short time, but they usually stay forever...

    And not to forget the situation on the job market, the wages, which will suffer very much from too much (mass) immigration.

    Finally not to speak about the possible result if its about crime, social problems, schools, quarters etc...

    So mass immigration is (if for anybody) just good for the plutocracy if they want to crush unions and social structures, but for almost nothing else with the exception of very special situations.
    Here's the thing:

    These immigrants not only pour across the borders (I'm going to use the US as an example as I'm sure we're all at least roughly familiar with their situation), and bring their families in too. They breed. They get paid, if they get jobs. This is a good thing, generally, insofar as the economy is concerned - and this is what we're discussing. They get paid and the buy products. Their kids also get benefits such as education, healthcare, etc. This places a massive burden on the economy - we're not talking about a few families here, we're talking about millions. In addition, these immigrants - Mexicans - don't speak English, and so social services in areas they come to dominate have to be restructured and speak in Spanish. They also form gangs, and are generally violent, not only because of the biological predisposition (all races, other than east Asians, have higher tesosterone levels and lower intelligence. Given the will to self-perpetuation, which I'm taking as a self-evident fact, this means they will know what they want, use less intelligence, and with a higher 'will to power' it means they'll take it the easier ways possible - theft, violence, robbery etc.) but because of hostility and resentment they take towards white America which they see as having stolen - incorrectly - large chunks of land from Mexico. By having millions of Mexicans pour across the border, the average wage gets depressed. In addition, the strain they pose on social services drives up taxes required to fund said social services, hence budget deficets higher than usual (this, combined with the massive monetary expenditures such as the insurrection war in Iraq, causes big problems). Given that currency isn't tied down to any relatively stable resource, such as gold, savings are whittled away due to monetary expansion, and rising taxes causes businesses to collapse, large numbers of people to lose jobs, who naturally have massive resenment towards these invaders - or colonists, if you wish to see it from that perspective. Sections of this unemployed and barely-employed native population, with their hostility towards the colonists, spills over into the practical effects of violence, which increases the need for spending on police and other federal enforcement agencies such as BATF and the FBI to deal with organised crime. The businesses which encourage cheap labour - which is, in summa, not so cheap - manipulate special interest groups such as both the Republican party, which sees cheap labour as a good thing, and the Democratic Party, which sees massive voting blocs who can be appealed to in times of elections in order to reinforce their political control over the State, in order to increase taxes on the general population while taxes on the rich drop. Two groups benefit - large corporations which can sustain losses courtesy of low taxes, and special interest groups such as political parties and political action committees. Minority ethic groups also take advantage of slowly rising violence as well as appealing to the tolerance morality accepted by those who are not immediately effected by these problems, to reinforce anti-discrimination laws etc. Businesses also offshore to avoid the massive taxes due to such problems, hence the Californian industrial base of the US has vapourised, only to reterritoralise itself in China and other cheap-labour, monoethnic (i.e. relatively stable, even if totaliatarian) socities.

    Everyone loses, but not to the same effect. And the special interest groups (i.e. parties, PAC's) don't have enough foresight to see what's happening, and certain minorities (i.e. colonists) love it. Other minorities, such as blacks, hate it, but they also hate whites for historically-distorted reasons, so they both support (insofar as it can roll back 'white dominance') and oppose these occurances.

    Nativism is the only real solution.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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