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Thread: Did Odin Exist?

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfaz View Post
    I don't think that the gods of our ancestors existed like as the Christian God or Allah or Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva. However the ancient german gods the person of a function, a natural~metheorogical thing like as the Christian God, Jahve originally was a stormgod. Moreovet on the early pages the Bible speak out plural about the god. I have learned that Jahve (the Christian God too) had a wife who called Ashera.
    Monotheism of the Israelite type is based upon centuries of philosophical speculation by priestly elites. Its roots are imitative of tendencies within neighbouring Egypt. Paarpola tries to derive Biblical monotheism from an Assyrian source: he fails but he might have a point regarding Zoroastrianism. (Is dualism really Aryan?) An Egyptian source there is still more probable than the Assyrian though the Iranian-Turanian dualism featuring brothers is structurally different from the Gnostic dualism involving emanations - a different origin? The early Turks of Orkhon knew Erlik merely as a polytheistic underworld god, not yet near-diabolised by associations with Angra Mainyu. Dualism in C Asia then originated among Iranians, not among some Mongoloid race. In Iran good-against-evil dualism seems older than monotheism/dualism but is without unambiguous precedent in the country or nearby. Over in the religion of Egypt incipient dualism seems expressed first in a variant of the tears of Atum-Re, in which Apep is born as a younger counterpart to the benign sun. Apep however was not clearly blamed as the source of all evil until the Persian occupation, when notions of an anti-god were clearly present.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    The English name for Thor was, literally, Thunder. But before the Migration Age the Roman observers noted Mercury or Chronos was the supreme German god.
    The Romans are always cited in reference to the ancient Germans but are unreliable in this because they saw everything the Germans did through their own ethnocentric lense, for instance this god Chronos. Chronos isn't even a German word.

    You are making my point about Thor. Mercury was never a major god, even in the Roman pantheon. Does Mercury have a day of the week named after him? No. But Thor has Thursday named after him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    You are making my point about Thor. Mercury was never a major god, even in the Roman pantheon. Does Mercury have a day of the week named after him? No. But Thor has Thursday named after him.
    Mercury = Mercredi
    Woden = Wendesday

    Although the Babylonian habit of naming days for planets is late it is informative to a structuralist - and the useful (for us) practice went east to China as well as west to Rome. For example Swedish lordag is Lodhur's day, compelling the identification of Loki with Roman Saturn. This informs us the Loki of late folklore was more important to the ancient Swedish than his Eddic nature as a trickster.

    Hermes-Mercury was to gain utmost importance because of the Hermetic corpus, but in Greece long before his attributes overlapped with early notions of Apollo - who was not some minor deity. Both of them were seen as connected to Hyperborea and the underworld: Apollo was the "sun of night" before he was the god of the daytime sun. As a theonym Aplu first appears as another name for Nergal in Greece and Asia Minor: Nergal is another psychopompos (a god who was however identified with planets Saturn and Mars most often).

    Loki and Saturday: http://samla.raa.se/xmlui/bitstream/...8/1995_229.pdf
    Late folklore of Loki: http://eldar-heide.net/Publikasjonar...20nettsida.pdf

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    I have a better one for you.

    In alchemy the black sun is represented by the planet Saturn only for this meaning the planet is black. This means the Black Sun's Sunday is Saturday.

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    So while we are speaking of the Black Sun, there are some people, artists, who have depicted Odin with one eye and one eye (the eye he lost gaining knowledge) as the Black Sun. This Odin's eye can be seen then as the center of the galaxy representing both the Black Sun and Odin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    I have a better one for you.

    In alchemy the black sun is represented by the planet Saturn only for this meaning the planet is black. This means the Black Sun's Sunday is Saturday.
    Saturn is also known as the sun of night for its steady nocturnal motion. All fits together?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Saturn is also known as the sun of night for its steady nocturnal motion. All fits together?
    Yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Master-of-Swords View Post
    There is nothing new in attempts at humanising the gods: it is as old as the recorded myths.Snorri Sturluson started this process with his Poetic or Younger Edda.
    I would suspect that his reason for doing so was to detract from the divine nature of our gods because of his xtian beliefs.
    Isn't Jesus a humanisation of Yahweh? Think about the Depeche Mode song: Personal Jesus. David Gahan sings: 'Reach out and touch faith.'

    I know what you're trying to say, but even if Christianity may seem impersonal to you and along the same lines of Deism, this same spectrum exists in the stories of Indo-European gods. Personally, I value the original humanity of the gods, rather than the tall tales built around them. If anything, that engenders more interest for me than some fanciful intersection between man and the universe as if the godhead, rather than merely accounting for the primacy of ancestral causes.

    Furthermore, I only follow the sagas for my knowledge of Odin. Extrapolating his presence by filtering from other sources just tampers with the true origins already most evident.

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