View Poll Results: Do you identify more with:

Voters
53. You may not vote on this poll
  • Mussolini's Fascism

    9 16.98%
  • National Socialism

    30 56.60%
  • A Little of Both

    14 26.42%
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47

Thread: National Socialism or Fascism?

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Ederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,264
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Post Fascism and National Socialism

    What are the main differences between Fascism and National Socialism? I am interested in all sorts of differences not simply the Racial Legislation ones.

  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    35
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,820
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    10 Posts

    Post

    National Socialism and Fascism are philosophical opposites.

    Under Fascism, the State defines the National Identity - Rome is a prime example, Roman state power defined Rome as the empire, while in NS, its the other way around, the ex-Yugoslavian states are an example of that.

    There's a really long article which explains the contrasts between different conceptions of the State, such as Marxist, Capitalist, Fascist and Nationalist here - http://www.euroknowledge.net/article...Michael+Walker

    long but excellent read.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Ederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,264
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Post

    That is quite a long piece. I only read 3/4 of it, I'll get back to it later or some other day.

  4. #14
    Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, June 23rd, 2003 @ 06:03 PM
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Age
    54
    Politics
    White Nationalist
    Posts
    25
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    There is a lot of waffle in that essay, as well as interesting ideas.

    The truth is that Fascism is indeed founded upon the primacy of the state, but National-Socialism is not too different except that it places greater emphasis on racial and ethnic identity. So, a multiracial state can certainly be Fascist, but never National-Socialist, unless one ethnic group dominates and controls the others. Both ideologies are centralistic and statist.

    In many ways Fascism is closer to Communism, the only differences being that the former is tolerant of private property, religion and other forms of individual behaviour, as long as the state always comes before everything else. The latter insists on a uniformity of lifestyle, behaviour and economic status. The other big difference is that Fascism keenly asserts national (not racial) identity while Communism is globalistic and internationalist in outlook.

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    NatRev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 @ 08:02 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Anglo Saxon
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Midlands
    Gender
    Age
    50
    Family
    Having a longtime compani
    Politics
    red-brown-green
    Religion
    Pantheist
    Posts
    634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10
    Thanked in
    10 Posts

    Post Strasser et al

    Essentially fascism has been said to be a petty bourgeois reaction to the approach of Socialism, to an extent this is true but it’s also worth noting that most early ‘proto-fascists’ were actually disgruntled Socialists that were infuriated and frustrated at the tortoise pace of Socialism; (Marx wasn’t actually in favour of revolutions, he more or less saw the overthrow of Capitalism as inevitable and that it was only a matter of time before the emergence of Socialism and then Communism).

    Certainly around the turn of the century onwards, there was an increase in a sense of (Italian) this mixed with the semi-Socialistic ideals of the above mentioned people and of course the National Syndicalists began to come together and brew the particular elixir we now know and love called Fascism.

    Fascism was reactionary and revolutionary too, it demanded the revitalisation of the old Roman State-Empire, but also had the interests of it’s citizens at hand (Socialist influences). It’s fair to say that STATE was infinitely more important than RACE as many Jews were in fact Fascists and when Hitler demanded the delivery of Italian Jews to him, this caused much animosity amongst the common Italian people.

    Regarding National Socialism, I feel that it’s fair to point out that, just as Trotsky’s ideals of Communism were different to that of Stalin, so were the ideals of the Strasser brothers to that of Hitler.

    After Hitler’s release from prison, he found out that the then banned NSDAP had split up into several rival factions, the most significant of these being the NSVP, the National Socialist Freedom party headed by the Strasser brothers and Ernst Röhm, this party was based more on Nationalised Socialism than Hitler’s brand of National Socialism; support for this group came mostly from the urban proletariats, very similar membership to the Red Front, the paramilitary wing of the Communist Party. (I have a photo in a book of a German street in the 1920's with Bolshevik flags and Nazi flags waving from the same building, this shows how close the two camps were to each other, it would also suggest that there may have been some similarities in ideology, particul;ary if both camp memebers were from the same economic class and possibly grew up together and worked at the same factory, etc...)

    As Hitler began to become more and more popular with the rich industrial bourgeois elites, he started to loose contact with his working class / lower middle class roots and indeed dropped many anti-Semitic ideals in favour of a more aggressive anti-Marxist (Hitlerian Nazis tend to bunch anything ideologically ‘left’ as Marxist rightly or wrongly). Despite the momentary drop in anti-Semitism, it is fair to say that certainly RACE was an important factor, in fact the main factor, in Hitlerian National Socialism.

    In conclusion, I think it would be interesting to re-examine the previous statements in respect to the ‘third’ group, Fascism, Hitlerian Nationalised Socialism AND Strasserite Nationalised Socialism.

    Although I have a book by Otto Strasser, I STILL have not gotten round to reading it, it would be interesting where his ideology stands in relationship to Fascism & Socialism.
    "Only through a re-integration of Humanity into the whole of Nature can our People be made stronger."

  6. #16
    Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Last Online
    Monday, June 23rd, 2003 @ 06:03 PM
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Age
    54
    Politics
    White Nationalist
    Posts
    25
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post

    The other issue worth mentioning is that Fascism was (and is) a fundamentally conservative movement, not a revolutionary one. It recognised and protected traditional institutions such as the church, the family, marriage, etc. National-Socialism was more radical and revolutionary, as well as being fundamentally anti-Christian in thought.

  7. #17
    Senior Member
    Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts

    Post

    Hermod; "The fascism as ideology has a many constructive points. However it lacks a strong racial memento. That handicap was IMHO the reason of its downfall. Mussolini (which was in my eyes a great leader and a great historical person) almost had to pay that mistake with his life".

    Moody Lawless; This is so; indeed, it seems that Mussolini was resistant to racial ideology at first.
    However, we shold also look at Mussolini's failure to rise above the Catholic Church [not surprising given Rome's centrality to that religion!], and also his failure to rise above the Monarchy.
    By leaving those two institutions in place he multiplied his internal enemies to the point where any false step would be punished by a stab in the back.

    Therefore the Church and Monarchy [if there is one] must be subordinated to the State, which latter should be none other than the Will of the Folk.
    This is why we need a Strong State.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts

    Post Re: Fascism and National Socialism

    Jack; "National Socialism and Fascism are philosophical opposites.
    Under Fascism, the State defines the National Identity - Rome is a prime example, Roman state power defined Rome as the empire, while in NS, its the other way around ..."

    Moody; I disagree with their being 'opposites' - that's ridiculous.
    Rather the Fascist conception of 'the State' was taken by National Socialists and transmogrified into 'the Race'.

    'All within the State and nothing outside the State', becomes 'all within the Race and nothing outside the Race'.

    What the State was to Fascists, so the Race was to N-S; hardly opposites, just a racialisation of the Fascist philosophy, which is otherwise retained.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Fraxinus Excelsior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Last Online
    Thursday, November 24th, 2011 @ 07:53 PM
    Ethnicity
    Diasporan Europid.
    Subrace
    Harmonious Bastard
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    Location
    The Panopticon of Disgust
    Gender
    Age
    38
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    What I'm Paid For.
    Politics
    FolkNationalism/DirectDemocracy
    Religion
    No thanks.
    Posts
    389
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Which is More Attractive: National Socialism or Mussolini's Fascism

    Which specific ideology do you more identify with: National Socialism as drawn out in the 25 Points, or Mussolini's Ten Commandments of the Fascist Soldier? Or, are you more inclined to take a little motivation from both?

    I voted for "a little of both". Specifically, I am very fond of #7 of the 25 Points and #4 of the Ten Commandments of the Fascist Soldier.

    -Ten Commandments (4) The enemy of Fascism is your enemy:- give him no quarter.

    -25 Points (7.) We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.




  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts

    Post Re: Which is More Attractive: National Socialism or Mussolini's Fascism

    I surprised myself and voted for both too.

    There are good reasons for this, I think, as I regard N-S/Facism essentially as a synthesis. As such, the volatile elements within the synthesis are continually vying with one another and are therefore in a state of constant flux.

    As I've said elsewhere, I regard White Nationalism [WN] as a further synthesis-on from N-S/Fascism, and that both N-S and Fascim have informed WN; indeed, that's why I voted for both.

    We notice that Mussolini tried, by using a variety of means - some of them conflicting - to solidify the State. In a sense this goes against the reality of flux. The Fascist Ideal was for a monolithic Roman-type Imperium, as a reaction to the liberalism and chaos of Italian politics that preceded him [and did indeed follow him].
    It must be admitted that he fell short of achieving this, although he made much head-way.

    However, in N-S there is an aspect not found in Fascism; it is that Racial element, of course. But it is an element that opens up a new spiritual dimension. It is based on that yearning of European man to return to the Pagan essence of the Aryan.
    Whether that was the intention of N-S or not is a moot point, but it was the effect of N-S that the geni was allowed out of the bottle.

    The implication of N-S is that Christ gives way to Wotan, and a fully Nordic revival of pan-Europrean paganism is made possible.

    This goes far beyond historical Fascism and N-S, and it is the esoteric basis of WN; but without Fascism, N-S wouldn't have been possible.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, March 25th, 2004 at 06:08 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. National Socialism, Fascism, and Communism
    By Rodskarl Dubhgall in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 87
    Last Post: 2 Weeks Ago, 12:06 PM
  2. What Would You Choose? National Socialism or National Anarchism?
    By DieMenschMaschine in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: Tuesday, June 28th, 2011, 05:51 PM
  3. Chauvinism, National-Socialism or Racial-Socialism?
    By Lusitano in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 06:02 PM
  4. Replies: 22
    Last Post: Friday, November 5th, 2004, 03:08 AM
  5. National Socialism and National Anarchism
    By Aethrei in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: Saturday, January 31st, 2004, 05:05 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •