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Thread: What Occult Methods did Hitler use?

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    Post What Occult Methods did Hitler use?

    What occult methods did Hitler use? Was he defeated using magick? What about the Sword of Destiny?

    *the americans attempt at starting a discussion*

    Nick

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    Post Re: Hitler and the Occult

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas
    What occult methods did Hitler use? Was he defeated using magick? What about the Sword of Destiny?
    I recently became interested in this topic, and asked a friend, and member of this forum, about it's relevance. Here is part of the answer he gave me, (which I really hope he doesn't mind my sharing. ). His info pretty much set the record straight on the matter for me because I consider him to be a very knowledgeable and relevant source on Hitler, National Socialism and most matters of Germany, in general.

    ***Note: I've given the following excerpt without permission from the person who wrote it to me, and have not identified the writer, so if there is any dispute about what I've submitted...Keep it to yourself, as the author may or may not wish to defend his position. This is just a strictly informational bit of writing that might shed some opposition on your query.***


    It is true that Hitler read some occult Germanic magazines (for example "Ostara") in his teenage years in Vienna but this shouldn´t be overrated. Most influental on the young Hitler was his admiration for Richard Wagner.
    Although the secret "Thule Society" in Munich that he came in contact with after WW1 indeed had a strong connection to occultism, paganism, heathendom, etc., the main appeal on Hitler was its support of the counterrevolution which disempowered the communist council that reigned in Munich since 1918. The Thule society also participated in the foundation of the DAP which later was renamed to NSDAP. Hitler was in no way occultist and neither were most National Socialists who came out of the Thule milieu, for example Rudol Heß and Alfred Rosenberg. Both the political program and the actual established National Socialism were extremely anti-occult. Many pseudo-religious groups, even if they were anti semitic and pro NS, were declared illegal and some of its members sent to the concentration camps after the NSDAP took over power in 1933.

    The only real occultist NS leader was Heinrich Himmler who was quite a nut. Many weird esoteric ideas about runes, rebirth, astrology, fortune-telling and so on circled in his head but this often was ridiculed behind his back, even by Hitler himself (mostly in his table talks). Tabloid writers nowadays always bring up this stories about evil occult NS since such things sell much better than pointing out the true story but there really isn´t much to it.
    "Nature! We are surrounded and embraced by her:
    powerless to separate ourselves from her, and powerless to penetrate beyond her.

    Without asking, or warning, she snatches us up into her circling dance, and whirls us on until we are tired, and drop from her arms." - Goethe

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    Post AW: Re: Hitler and the Occult

    Yeah, that is basically true, although the occult nature of the Thule Society is totally overrated, as well as its relevance. You have to imagine it as a kind of freemason lodge as far as the rituals are concerned, coupled with a rather conservative than revolutionary political leaning.

    Depending on the definition of occultism one could say that Hess was an occultist in so far as he believed in horoscopes. I would rather classify this as a mild form of superstition.

    Himmler on the other hand was full blown nuts. He actually believed he was the reincarnation of Henry the Fowler. Normally at this point he should have been relieved of his offices and sent to an institution. The same is true for most occultist that were involved in the SS in one way or the other (Willigut for example).

    But every newspaper knows: Hitler sells. Occultism sells. So an occultistic Hitler story probably sells even better. Since the 80s we had so much hysteria all over the world that government money was pumped into a few obscure monitoring groups who see occultist and Satanist everywhere - basically to save their own jobs. I cannot count the instances of newspaper headlines like "Woman confesses: I was involved in Black Masses and ritual murder. Hundreds of victims?" Of course all these claims came from truly mentally disturbed persons are were so obviously false that the smarter newspaper editors did not touch the topic with a ten feet pole. But for the tabloids it was a quick buck.
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    Post Re: Hitler and the Occult

    Some Satanists use Hitler as archtype.

    But I doubt we will ever know if Hitler himself was a Satanist.

    According to the Muslims we are all the great Satan so it depends on your point of view and definition of Satan.

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    Post AW: Hitler and the Occult

    I recommend to read the book "The Occult Roots Of National Socialism" by Goodrick-Clarke. I found it to be written in an objective way and the author comes to the conclusion that after all, National Socialism was not very much influenced by occultism although some higher leaders where members of the Thulegesellschaft or otherwise engaged in occult societies and / or practices.

    Another book on this topic is "The Spear of Destiny" by Ravenscroft. IMHO absolute bullshit, weird stuff. His sources are transcendental experiences which let him have a look into Hitler's quite unknown years in Vienna. Not worth a penny or Pfennig...

    Nichts kann das zerstören, was auf der Wahrheit aufgebaut ist. Wir sind das reine Gold, das im Schmelztiegel getestet werden kann. Der Schmelztiegel möge glühen und prasseln. Nichts kann uns zerstören. Eines Tages werden wir uns erheben und wieder triumphieren. Hofft und wartet!
    (Savitri Devi Mukherji)

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    Post AW: Hitler and the Occult

    I think that Aleister Crowley also meet Hitler (i read in in some Thule Net Post)
    and that the "Deutscher Gruss" and the "Victory Sign" by Churchill are some handmagick!

    So i think Hitler was introduced in the occult signs and spells.
    "Ich will den Frieden - und ich werde alles daransetzen, um den Frieden zu schließen. Noch ist es nicht zu spät. Dabei werde ich bis an die Grenzen des Möglichen gehen, soweit es die Opfer und Würde der deutschen Nation zulassen. Ich weiß mir Besseres als Krieg!
    Adolf Hitler nach Beendigung des Frankreich-Feldzuges in einem Gespräch mit seinem Architekten Prof. Hermann Giesler, Giesler: "Ein anderer Hitler", Seite 395



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    Post Re: AW: Hitler and the Occult

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjölnr
    I think that Aleister Crowley also meet Hitler (i read in in some Thule Net Post)
    and that the "Deutscher Gruss" and the "Victory Sign" by Churchill are some handmagick!

    So i think Hitler was introduced in the occult signs and spells.

    Hmmmn.....intetesting that Hitler would meet with a British spy. Yes, Aleister Crowley was an agent for British intelligence during the war, and used his contacts with German occultists to obtain information(this was also true with other major British occultsts) for the British war effort. This is is how the British knew about Hess' flight ahead of time. A trival but still interesting aspect of this story is that Crowley's superior was Ian Fleming, who would later write the James Bond novels.

    There are many myths about Hitler and the Occult. One of the most popular is how Hitler consulted astrologers....this is false. Hitler actually attacked astrology and after the Hess affair had many arrested. The Spear of Destiny story has never been really proven.

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    Post AW: Re: AW: Hitler and the Occult

    Quote Originally Posted by Taras Bulba
    Hmmmn.....intetesting that Hitler would meet with a British spy. Yes, Aleister Crowley was an agent for British intelligence during the war, and used his contacts with German occultists to obtain information(this was also true with other major British occultsts) for the British war effort. This is is how the British knew about Hess' flight ahead of time. A trival but still interesting aspect of this story is that Crowley's superior was Ian Fleming, who would later write the James Bond novels.

    There are many myths about Hitler and the Occult. One of the most popular is how Hitler consulted astrologers....this is false. Hitler actually attacked astrology and after the Hess affair had many arrested. The Spear of Destiny story has never been really proven.
    The Article:

    Aleister Crowley is the occultist and Satanist that is maybe the most well known. His works "The Book of the Law", "Magick in Theory and Practice" and "The Book of Thoth" are broadly used in occult circuits. Crowley himself didn't take much credit for having written them, as he stated they were written by automatic handwriting, being channeled from a higher being called Aiwaz (or Aiwass). This being said he had lived in Caldea during the reign of Hammurabis (around 1750 BC), but later, in his book "Magick in Theory and Practice", Crowley identified Aiwaz as his own genius. He was actually very proud of this book, which he used as a Bible for his own religion - Thelema. Crowley looked at man as a sleeping god who gradually started to understand what powers he possesses. He also taught that Satan was identical with the Sumerian devil/god Shaitan, who he stated had been worshiped in the Egyptian deserts long before the ages of the Pharaohs.


    He was also a drug- and sex addict and was addicted both to opium, hashish, cocaine, mescaline, amphetamines and heroin, in order to perceive higher states of beingness (drug abuse is very common to occultists in general). When he discovered mescaline, he developed seven rituals, Rites of Eleusis, and rented Caxton Hall to demonstrate them. Later he opened up a Temple of Satan in London, where many high society ladies became his pupils. By that time Crowley had shaved his head and filed his canine teeth so sharp that he could initiate every new woman with a "kiss of the snake", as he gave them a bite either on the wrist or in the throat.

    "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the Law" [The work of the OTO ... is geared towards the achievement of a world-spanning empire ... The Law "Do what thou wilt" is the law of this new state - a One World Government] was his motto for the OTO, which was the secret order he himself was the Grandmaster of. He rejected traditional morality in favor of the life of a drug addict and brutal womanizer ("I rave; and I rape and I rip and I rend" is a line from one of his poems). He even enjoyed being called the "wickedest man in the world". He was married twice, and both his wives went insane. Five of his mistresses committed suicide.

    People who met Crowley verified that he had occult powers, and as an example William Seabrook tells the following story: Seabrook wanted a demonstration of Crowley's powers, so the latter chose a man by random out on the street and followed him, imitating his walk. Suddenly Crowley fell but was rapidly on his feet again. At the same time the other man fell on the sidewalk. Crowley and his companion helped the man up, and he looked confused, trying to find the banana peel.

    Crowley was also the man who came up with putting backwards messages into musical recordings. Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin used this on some of their albums. Jimmy Page put a backward satanic message on the mega hit "Stairway to Heaven" ("Here's to my sweet Satan"). Page also bought Crowley's mansion in Scotland and was/is a true follower of his teaching, as was the late drummer John Bonham from the same group. Beatles also used backwards messages like "Paul is dead" on their albums and Crowley's head is present on the cover of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".



    Aleister Crowley was born in Warwickshire where he revolted against a strict religious childhood. He left his studies and became initiated into the secret order of the Golden Dawn in 1898. After some time he came into conflict with its leaders and went to Mexico. From there he traveled a lot, to India and Ceylon, where he studied yoga and Buddhism. Buddhism replaced his occult interests for a while, until he got a strange experience in Cairo, Egypt in 1904. By curiosity his wife Rose asked him to do an occult ritual. She then went into a state of trance and brought down a message from some strange being. "He's waiting for you", she told Crowley. "Him", she said, was Horus, the God of wars and the son of Osiris in the old Egyptian mythology.

    At first, Crowley didn't believe her, so he started asking her a few questions to reveal her as a fraud. But Rose, who didn't know very much about the occult, gave the correct answers ...

    The message that was sent to Crowley, told him to sit down by his desk a certain time three days in a row. He obeyed and in these three days he wrote "The Book of Law" with automatic writing. This means ones hand is moving by another force than ones own ...

    Crowley's messenger taught that the old Age of Osiris soon would follow by the new Age of Horus. But first Earth must bathe in blood. There should be a World War(!). The Book of Law told about a race of Superhuman and condemned the old religions, the pacifism, democracy, compassion and humanity. "Let my servants be few and secret, they shall reign over the many and the known", the Superhuman continued. The rest of the message goes in the same spirit. The lower races should be humiliated and condemned and even killed. It taught "no mercy".[Long before the Roswell incident, where a flying saucer crashed in the desert and dead aliens were found, Crowley made a drawing of one of his "messengers" called Lam - the drawing is identical with the Grey Aliens with the big black eyes, who nowadays are so well promoted in movies and among abducted].

    The messenger also declared that Crowley was the Beast 666 from the "Book of Revelations" (13:18) who had come to destroy Christianity. He tried to forget the whole thing, but from 1909 and forwards, he started taking the messages seriously.

    Crowley then left his former occult teacher MacGregor Mathers, who by then was a broken man. Mathers started a psychic war against Crowley. They contacted "demons" with which they attacked each other, and Mathers lost. Such demonic warfare is very common today among the Brotherhoods. Long after his death, Crowley became a hero for many young people within the flower-power movement. The irony in all this is, that these young people cried for peace and love. Crowley in his turn welcomed the First World War, as necessary to sweep away the old age and start the new one. Since he revealed his revelations, he became the head of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis) in Germany, which gave him a great influence over similar people in Germany. It's also well known that Hitler was influenced by him and that Crowley himself tried to contact Hitler during the 2:d World War.

    Quelle: http://www.illuminati-news.com/aleister_crowley1.htm
    "Ich will den Frieden - und ich werde alles daransetzen, um den Frieden zu schließen. Noch ist es nicht zu spät. Dabei werde ich bis an die Grenzen des Möglichen gehen, soweit es die Opfer und Würde der deutschen Nation zulassen. Ich weiß mir Besseres als Krieg!
    Adolf Hitler nach Beendigung des Frankreich-Feldzuges in einem Gespräch mit seinem Architekten Prof. Hermann Giesler, Giesler: "Ein anderer Hitler", Seite 395



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    Post Re: AW: Re: AW: Hitler and the Occult

    http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-12.htm

    -a section from an anti-Buddhist/lammaic website, but nevertheless contains some interesting infirmation on Miguel Serrano, Tantrism etc.

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    Post Re: AW: Re: AW: Hitler and the Occult

    Here's a an article dealing with Crowley's involvements with British intelligence.



    http://www.redflame93.com/Fleming.html

    During World War II, the most unusual top secret operation which Ian Fleming orchestrated dealt with using a Nazi leader's defection as a propaganda tool for the war effort. The idea sounded risky, but the major difficulty lay in deciding which Nazi leader they could get to defect and how.
    A plan was hatched which culminated on May 10th 1941 when Adolf Hitler's Deputy, Rudolf Hess, took off in a Messerschmitt bound for Scotland. Some historians claim he was bringing a secret peace offering to end the war however the truth is far more interesting. It appears Fleming, Knight and others had earlier devised this outrageous plan to lure Rudolf Hess to England by slipping him false astrological information. They believed that Rudolf Hess was 'the' gullible Nazi leader they were looking for and it proved true. The data which they fed into the Nazi astrological circles claimed that six planets in the sign of Taurus when coinciding with a full moon implied success for a secret meeting to end the war.
    Hess had already learned that a plot to overthrow Churchill's government was being planned in Scotland. Now, with the astrological advice heralding success, Hess was confident and wanted to be personally involved. Fortunately he was unaware that such a plot did not exist, having been fabricated simply to catch him. The meeting was scheduled to take place with the Duke of Hamilton, who was then working with the R.A.F. in Scotland. Hess made arrangements to secretly fly into Scotland in order to negotiate peace for Germany with the 'new' British leaders, of whom Hamilton was one. Unfortunately once Hess was taken into custody the incident was very poorly handled as a propaganda weapon. Little publicity came out regarding his 'defection.' In the end the scheme failed, achieving little more than capturing Rudolf Hess, which in itself was actually a great accomplishment.
    During the interrogation Rudolf Hess spoke in strange ramblings which some viewed as occult. Ian Fleming, who was involved with those interrogations, decided that help was needed. But who could he get who might understand these occult ramblings? Fleming thought about it and then suggested to his boss, Rear Admiral John Godfrey, "that Crowley should be allowed to interview Hess about the role of the occult in Nazism." (3) Fleming thought Crowley would be able to obtain further details on the influence of astrology with the Nazi leaders. It seemed like a good idea at the time. However it was his friend, Maxwell Knight, who spoke strongly against Crowley's involvement with Hess. It is said that Knight had no intention of allowing Crowley near Rudolf Hess, even though some historians have indicated that Crowley actually was a MI6 agent who spied on the Nazis and Communists in pre-war Berlin for the British government. Still, some members of the British Government, like Fleming, actually believed that Crowley could have helped in understanding Hess and other Nazi leaders. Both sides argued over this issue but Knight won out. In the end, Crowley was never summoned.
    Ian Fleming's biographer John Pearson wrote that Fleming "surpassed himself by appealing to one of the most notorious men in the whole of the British Isles. For many years he had been fascinated by the legend of wickedness which had attached itself to the name of Aleister Crowley, necromancer, black magician and the Great Beast 666. This immensely ugly old diabolist and self-advertiser had thrown himself into certain more unsavory areas of the occult with a gusto that must have appealed to Fleming, and when the interrogators from British Intelligence began trying to make sense of the neurotic and highly superstitious Hess he got the idea that Crowley might be able to help and tracked him down to a place near Torquay, where he was living harmlessly on his own and writing patriotic poetry to encourage the war effort. He seems to have had no difficulty in persuading the old gentleman to put his gifts at the disposal of the nation." (4)
    Aleister Crowley wrote a brief letter to Ian Fleming, now the Director of Naval Intelligence, offering his help.

    Sir:
    If it is true that Herr Hess is much influenced by astrology
    and Magick, my services might be of use to the Department in
    case he should not be willing to do what you wish. I have the
    honour to be, Sir,
    Your obedient servant,
    Aleister Crowley (5)


    With the letter Crowley included a copy of his latest patriotic poem entitled "England Stand Fast". To quote further from Fleming's biography, "It is a pity that this had to be one of Fleming's bright ideas which never came off: understandably, there was hilarity in the department at the idea of the Great Beast 666 doing his bit for Britain." (6) So in the end "Fleming's suggestion was vetoed, and Crowley and Hess never did meet, to the chagrin of the unorthodox historian." (7)

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