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Thread: Heracleitus - The Fragments

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    Zvaci
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    Post Heracleitus - The Fragments

    Heracleitus
    Circa 540.BC.-circa 480.BC.
    Heracleitus was a philosopher. He came from a noble family and was known as "the obscure one" by his contemporaries.
    He is known for his ideas that revolve around all things, all matter, being in a constant state of flux. Everything is constantly changing.
    We can relate Heracleitus to Dionysus in this way:
    Heracleitus believes that the origin of all things is...FIRE!
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, March 21st, 2006 at 03:26 PM.

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    Post I would like to implement something about Heracleitus

    Circa 540-circa 480 B.C. Greek philosopher; evolved cosmology in which fire is principle element of orderly universe

    Zvaci I read not long ago about he was the first historical person to acknowledge the principles of natural selection and gradualism,

    He is said to have been the first public known person who suddenly said: hey these "species" animals, plants, mankind, has not always looked this way? We are changing all the time and find our self in a constant metamorphose.

    The amazing is that as late as 1800century T.H Huxley (Evidence of Man’s place in nature 1863) and Charles Darwin (the descent of man 1871) was obscene and not easily digested in the aristocratic families, which were partly warped in Judea doctrines.

    This shows the purity of philosophy back then and how much Judea doctrines have polluted mankind in the in-between centuries.

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    Zvaci
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    " he was the first historical person to acknowledge the principles of natural selection and gradualism"

    It is astonishing that he come to so complicated conclusions (on wich we are used on in modern age) in that early time when philosophic way of thinking was still young infront of religious.
    His influence on Nietzche is allso significant.

    Rules we find in his philosophy are eternal.

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    do you behold any literature with this famous Decadent.

    What is Nietzsche's settings of him?

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    Zvaci
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    Unfortunatley the only direct sources of his life and work are in fragments and observations of other phylosophers of his pheriod.
    His style was deepley methaphorycal and hard to understand,he did leave no scool or followers after him.And was offtenly misunderstood by the people of his time.Allso his aristocratic wiew-point was "out of fashion"in his polis Oephesus wich turned to "democraty".
    Socrates answer on the question what is his judgemant of Heracleitus philosophy was that he agree with the part that he understood,and that he belives that the part he failed to understain is correct allso.With the dose of humor he said allso that this second part should be discovered by some good diver from Dellfes.

    With profet Zoroaster,Heracleitus was mayor inspiration in Nietzches creation of character Zarathustra fro his capital work "Allso sprach Zarathustra".

    Nietzche bellived that he was crown of the golden age of Antient Greek phylosophy(wich include Milet scool,Phitaroreian scool,Elleian scool and Atomists)-The pre-Socratian era of philosophy.
    Nietzche describet that era as the harmonic balance of "Dyonisian" and "Apolonic" virtues.That balance-ideal of antient Hellenic spirit was dammiged by decadents Plato,Sofists,Stoics,Epicur,Aristotheles ....and finaly Chistianity by chariching only "Apolonic"virtue of life.

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    Circa 540-circa 480 B.C. Greek philosopher; evolved cosmology in which fire is principle element of orderly universe
    RV 10:190

    Universal Order and Truth were born of blazing heat of the Tapas(1),
    and thence was Night born, and thence the billowy ocean of space;
    and from the billowy ocean of space was born Time,
    the year ordaining days and nights, the ruler of every moment.
    In the beginning, as on every occassion before, the sun(2) was created,
    the moon, the heaven and the earth, the firmament and the realm of light.

    (1) Endeavour(?) or Desire(?)

    (2) Its' a cyclical creation.

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    Post Polymatheie, kakotechnie!

    Herakleitos, THE father of conscious aryan thought... Very interesting to see the parallels
    in Rig-Veda: Tapas is the heat of the original raw energy that gives rise to all later creation and refinements. This applies to Cosmos as well as to Man, who is the Mikrokosmos, comprising in himself all cosmical laws and principles at work.
    His comparison with Dionysos is, however, less successful. Herakleitos banned the Dionysian culture with abhorrence; do not misunderstand the meanings of Apollonian and Dionysian. Nietsche himself has contributed to some confusion on this subject. There has also once existed a sound Dionysian greek side - however, it was soon penetrated by chthonian elements.
    To get illuminated on this subject, and so much more, study Alfred Rosenberg' s monumental work "The Myth of the 20. century". Best if you can read it in the german original, if you know very good german of course. Its english translation is almost bad. But he is, certainly, very difficult to translate. However, he is indispensable - a "must" for any aryan seeker.
    One more remark: Plato was no "decadent man"!!! Plato is the last great authentic glimpse of original aryan genious, after him some scholars and followers, Plotin, Georgios Plethon, ... - then, the chaos!

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    Post Common sense...

    Was Heraclitus the first to propose interchangability or equivalence of matter/energy?

    "All things are an exchange for fire, and fire for all things, as goods for gold and gold for goods."

    He had a similar approach to opposites - wet becomes dry, dry becomes wet.

    He seems to view opposites as necessary compliments so he can say unabashedly:

    "War is the father of all and king of all, who manifested some as gods and some as men, who made some slaves and some freemen."

    and

    "We must recognize that war is common and strife is justice, and all things happen according to strife and necessity."

    Heraclitus is known as the first Greek to use the word kosmos as 'world-order.'

    "This world-order, the same of all, no god nor man did create, but it ever was and is and will be: everliving fire, kindling in measures and being quenched in measures."

    Overall, an interesting guy who doesn't probably deserve the criticisms of Plato and others.

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    I believe that it was Heraclitus who said that one cannot step into the same river twice.

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    "If you don't hope what is impossible to hope, you will not unveil it, as it is closed to the search, and no path leads towards it"

    Heraclitus, Fr. 125

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