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Thread: Who are Europids?

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    Read my post above, I said: I don't postulate any historical unity of these races. Races can develop in a similar direction from different sources, and that is called parallell evolutions, Norwegian West Coast Alpinids called Strandids are such a case.

    The Dinarid nose is sometimes Afganid-looking and not always Pontid per se.

    Many things said are in theory and from text books. You are still Von Braun and unique. You also said that you're partly Dinarid. So that would explain the fair skin and green eyes. But Dinarids are said to have brownish skin, it's just that they are not so ruddy and more pale white who tan differently. The things you would share with the Armenids is the flat occiput (or near that) and the slightly convex and prominent nose (but theirs is thicker and more fleshy).

    The Croatian tennis player Goran Ivanisevic represent the fairer Dinaroid type fairly well:
    (the gracile giant with some small Mongolids)

    Are you brachycephalic?

    I forgot how you look.

    Originally posted by Von Braun
    i do not have curly black hair, I do not have brown or black eyes, and I do not have swarthy skin, yet I am part Dinaric. How can I be connected to Armenoids?

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    Originally posted by volksdeutsche
    Thanks for your reply. It's always a matter of taste and subjectivity what we call Europid. In rough terms Europid is associated with at least skin (thin, light skin) blondism, and relatively soft wavy hair and thinner lips and a more richly-detailed face.

    I would say that the biggest distinction besides pigmentation of hair, skin and eyes it's the nasal shape which differ. Europe is more related with Cro-Magnoid-related (Aurignacians) types.

    The peoples in northwestern Europe, including the inhabitants of Scandinavia, Great Britain, Holland, Belgium, and the northern portions of France and Germany, are medium-headed, on the average. The peoples farther south, in central France, southern Germany, and northern Italy (as well as almost all the people of eastern Europe) are short-headed. Still farther south, along the Mediterranean, in Portugal, Spain, southern France, Italy, and the Balkans, the people are medium-headed. In North Africa and the Middle East many long-heads are found.

    So longer heads (except parts of Scandinavia and maybe eastern parts of Ireland, England and Scotland) in modern times are rare in Europe north of the Alps (here I include Lombardy being north, although it's changing rapidly since the 1950's).

    Western, low-skulled (low in blood allele q), sub-type: Atlantics (or West-Europids, WE).


    a) dark

    1) large-bodied and more primitive Tydalid (Coon's Irish Brunn is somewhat related to this type, but Tydalids are more localised to Inner Scandinavia, darker and Alpinised to a larger extent)

    2) As a rule small-bodied (west) Mediterranid with the following sub-races: the primitive, small Berid, and the little, elegant Insulid (the actual Mediterranid), the bigger and weakly beaked-nosed Baskid and the more distantly related Arabid (which is uncommon in Europe).
    -----so according to this we assume basques to be natives of europe but it may be a little doubfull. usually lingually no relatives can be found means that it is just that linguists do not like the possibilities. but why berid is primitive and insular is more gracile.
    the term gracile should be explained here clearly. if we do not do it we will be meaningless. if a short legged stocky alpin because he lives in high places and is adopted to it why should it be nongracile. slipping on the ice is is a bad experiment who will survive most? long bodies or short and round bodies.

    b) Light: (West) Nordids, Gothic, Falid and its Västmanlandid variety in mainly central-eastern Sweden). A special type belonging here is the big-bodied and light-eyed, but dark-haired (somewhat q-richer), although it is in some extent a "hybrid race" between the Nordids (of Gothic type) and Insulids.

    Short-headed (west) Alpinid race, with a special sub-type, the Strandid, in W Norway.

    a) Long-headed and high-skulled (East-Europids)

    1. Dark: Caspid race. Average stature, sometimes over it, often fairly small, sharp face. Many sub-races under this race, that have a spreading, although partly in big mixture, over big parts of Asia, Africa and Europe.

    The most important sub-races are the Pontid, Saharid, Indid (all gracile with fine faces, narrow, straight nose, with the latter two weak beard development). The Afghanid (very big-bodied, but thicker, weakly beaked nose, fairly thin lips, heavy beard development).

    2. Blond: East-Nordid (except the head height so extraordinarily
    alike the West-Nordids, that it could be put as a sub-race of it in
    another draw up)

    Is besides that made up by an Aistin sub-race in W. Finland and
    Estonia, and an Arin, spread in E. Europe and W. Asia, both tall.

    I think that the Nordic element of the so called Neo-Danubian (equally high-skulled?), which is some kind of localised mix, and not a race per se) is some kind of Arin (as it should be meso - doliocephalic), possibly with Gorid admixture, especially in
    northern Ukraine (old little Russia) in the Chernigov province where the Gorids are said to dominate.

    ----what is a gorid? is it a dark savolaxid? then what is a savolaxid more or less when we are talking about east baltics we are talking about some people who show some mongoloid traits for example very deepset eyes witha high cheek look very mongoloid. i cannot understand how we exclude ancient mongoloid mixture?

    I put the Trönder in this group as well, and it is then related to the higher-skulled Aistins, although it's lower in blood allele q, and the border of higher frequencies of that allele is between wester Sweden and eastern Finland in the Baltic Sea and the same relation is between the more Aistin-Tavastid western and Savolaxid eastern Finland, and Nordid (of Aistin type?) western and Tavastid eastern Estonia.

    b) Short-headed

    1) Taurids, big-bodied shor-heads with very high vaults (HLI approx. 78-80!) with a flat occiput, and big hooked-nose and curly hair, long face, although the facial breadth vary. Sub-types: Dinarids: Very large; in Caucasus a similar, mtebid (from Georgian mtebi = mountain land) sub-race; Armenid: average stature with a strong fleshy nose: Karpathid (relatively late mixed race?) of lower stature.

    2 a) Blond, of average stature: East-Baltid with two-subtypes, Savolaxid (lower stature, small, somewhat prognathous face, somewhat oblique eyes) and Tavastids (higher stature, big, square-faced face, horizontal eyes).

    b) Dark and very small (south) "Lappid" (Varid; from Vare mountain) and the not as distinctive Gorids in Poland (from Polish gora = mountain).
    ----armenid is a rare racial type why do we think that the indoeuropeans that brought the language to armenids were east nordids or westmenlandic the cline may be alpins blond alpins or dark alpins or even borreby may have mixed with the afganin or arabids who lived there. besides there are more clines in for example in ukrayna a longer face nonbrachycephal,, beaky nose, inclined forehead sometimes in neotenic form the forehead does not incline. since goran ivanicevic looking ones are present in ukrayna, iran, georgia i do not understand why in fact two neighbors (dinarics and armenids) are defined to be distant. it may oppose that the native balkanians albainas montenegrins are native. instead of distorting dinarid armenid afganid arabid relationship may overview albanians and montenegrins .

    Of all those types mentioned above I would say that Arabids, Armenids, Saharids, Afganids, Indids, Lapponoids/Ladogans, Turanids are not natives of Europe, thus forming your non-Europid Caucasoid group. So they are clinal, Europoids but not Europids. I personally think that Savolaxids are clinal too. That can be left for discussion.
    ----i do not think that afganin or indids may be so easily excluded because genetical studies clearly show that utar pradesh brahmins are genetically not so far away from icelandic. we are more or less talking about relatives. so indid needs urgent definition cranially. or the scheme must change a bit. or Lundmans scheme must be explained to us more clearly.
    lapponoids are an ancient cline and clearly they are depigmented. depigmentation needs cloudy areas so it means they have stayed long enough to be depigmented. they are natives of scandinavia. what is the use of saying finnish have ancient cromagnon strains (ancient cromagnon yes mongols in asia show ancient cromagon traits too with even extreme low vault) but they are not mixed with lapponoids. it is a little doubtfull.
    thank you for your effort and explanations.
    kind regards
    Last edited by torrent; Monday, April 21st, 2003 at 01:48 AM.

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