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Thread: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    The truly unique Nordics (in the geographic sense) are UP types, which are largely derived from Cromagnon peoples of the Ice Age.
    That's what I disagree with here.
    IMO, a person can be genetically predominantly Palaeolithic, and look like a med,
    while another can be Neolithic ( or whatever ) and look like a textbook UP.

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    btw. Don't the Irish have a significant ammount of maternal Neolithic DNA.

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Awar
    That's what I disagree with here.
    IMO, a person can be genetically predominantly Palaeolithic, and look like a med,while another can be Neolithic ( or whatever ) and look like a textbook UP.
    Right - it all depends on which genes the person got. The traits that people look for to determine phenotype are possibly only a small subset of all genetic material IMO. It's also possible that people are very good at guessing genetic composition based on faces and other features (skin types, body types, smell, style of motion and expression), and that the features we look for are in fact representative of overall genetic composition.

    And I don't claim that all Irish are Cromagnon types - only some are. I think Conan O'Brien is an example of one, while Pierce Brosnan might have significant Neolithic admixture. I think most living Europeans have at least some Neolithic (and Cromagnid) admixture - it's just a question of how much.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    I think that pigmentation isn't a way to determine Neolithic or Palaeolithic ancestry.
    I hope soon, someone will make a study and show us at least a hint of how long it takes for pigmentation to change ( over generations ).

    I believe there were many dark Cro-Magnoids, perhaps even more than the depigmented ones. Or, that in the last 10.000 years, there was a sort of 'pigmentational adaptation' which happened in Europe.

  5. #95

    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    The white parts on the map represent incomplete data. Some regions had detailed typing of IE populations into Nordic/Med/Indic/Iranic, and some simply had the basic continental racial types (IE/East Asian/Subsaharan/Amerind). I posted that map because it is the most comprehensive survey of world autosomal genetic variation that I know of presented in a map format. It can be compared with the results of Rosenberg et al, which I cited when I posted the original map. Yes, it is incomplete, but it is far less incomplete than Y-chromsome or mtDNA studies or the existing fossil record.

    I made this thread precisely because I think the label "Nordic" associated with a long-faced archetype is quite misleading since such types are morphologically closer to Neolithic invaders than to paleolithic Europeans, who are the most distinctive Europeans. I think Neolithic invaders are less distinctive and blend in with Mediterranean and even Middle Eastern and North African populations, unlike Euro UP.

    I think that a truly distinctive "Nordic" type would be people who resemble real Cromagnons, such as the photos I posted early in the thread.

    My only question is what Gravettians looked like. They entered Central Europe 22kya, so their assimilation predates the Neolithic, and such people could perhaps be considered part of a distinctive Nordic mix.

    This thread is moving so fast and discussing so many topics that it needs to be split up into several threads--they are all worth discussion.

    Yes, the long-faced post-pleistocene types do look (morphology) like they should be represented in the Nordic makeup. Coon said this in 1939. But the genetic evidence is not backing this up, or, if admitting agricultural neolithic types, only doing so on a small basis. This is a problem. Just plodding along with craniometrics, liguistics, historical reconstructions as we have always done in Anthro. is not going to "move the ball forward". Genetics, as have been pointed out by almost everyone is incomplete, at best. But, someday, maybe, we will have a more comprehensive picture of the genetics and fine-tune the biological clock to get a better picture. Scoob's genetic chart was good but it is not the final word nor is this methodology complete enough for going back into the Upper Paleolithic or back further to Middle Paleolithic times.

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    Do you believe that this face could be of an cro-magnon?
    this is another reconstruction...


    btw, I have strong extraverted gonial angles...

    the bump in the lower maxilar, is that a cro-magnon feature?

    No asiatic or negroid skulls have this kind of stuff

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    Hmm, where are his browridges???

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Awar
    Hmm, where are his browridges???
    cro-magnon elegantis!

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    it's a 3 dimensional image in 2 dimensions..

    maybe it's there but this frontal image don't capture that...

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    Post Re: Cromagnon Face Reconstruction

    maybe some cro-magnon here too

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