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Thread: New Metaphysics?

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Post New Metaphysics?

    I'm wondering if it would be appropriate for a pan Aryan spiritual movement to develop its own metaphysical theory. I brought a book which had several (more than a dozen) of the Hindu Upanishads and while I found it interesting I don't quite think we can use the law of karma and Brahmin to underline our entire spiritual weltanshauung. Nothing against any "Hindus" here (Rahul has claimed that Hinduism doesn't exist?) but I do think we can learn a lot from it, I find it difficult to believe we can ressurect the entire ancient Aryan spirituality without constructing something new to fit an organised pan-white civilization.

    I don't know how you guys feel about this and I have a few of my own ideas but I'll post them after I see how you feel about this idea.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Whereto Metaphusika?

    I am responding to the question somewhat negatively.

    1. Pan-Aryanism.

    Those who are adherents to Aryanism today tend to be racialists, and therefore will not tolerate a pan-Aryanism [which will necessarily include an integrative alliance with coloured Hindus].

    A true pan-Aryanism cannot be racialist in the accepted sense of the term amongst rank and file White Racial Nationalists.

    Therefore, we have to think of a Western Aryanism: a White Aryan outlook, which can only be pan-White, but not pan-Aryan.

    2. Metaphysics.

    Now if we concentrate on the West, then we have to view Metaphysics within the ambit of the West [and leave aside the Metaphysics developed in Aryan India as racially incompatible].

    It is clear to me that Metaphysics in the West came to an end with Nietzsche; the phase of some 2 millennia from Platonism to Nietzscheanism is exhausted.
    God is Dead, and so is Metaphysics.

    This is a huge problem for the White Aryan movement ...
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
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    Question Metaphysics

    I tend to agree with Moody on this question, I find nothing objectionable in what he wrote from my position. I would like to jump into the discussion and I would like you to explain what is meant by Metaphysics. I find all Philosophy dead in the West, at least I have not heard of recent Philosophers in the West, we are engulfed by gradually degenerative Materialism which destroys anything which is of higher value like Spirituality and Philosophy. I found this definition of Metaphysics at http://www.yourdictionary.com :

    Metaphysics
    • Philosophy: The branch of philosophy that examines the nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attribute, fact and value.


    Is that what you intend by Metaphysics?

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Is that what you intend by Metaphysics?
    A general worldview of the foundations of reality that can tie in well with our spiritual racialism.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    I think, it is very difficult, probably impossible. There are too many different world-views and all of them have still greater justifications for their own stands. And most of them do not see Gods as they existed or the best explanation for creating a sympathy and understanding of ancient mythos, symbols and conceptions.

    We must not forget that far from having grown, since the days of our ancestors, we have lost much of the wealth of the Volkish world-view, which is essential to the race, the clan and the tribe.

    That will always be the basic bulding block of our being.

    Someone has to think about that and express thus accordingly.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post After The Physics

    The definition given of 'metaphysics' by Jack above is what Aristotle called 'First Philosophy', in his treatise which is now called [erroneously] 'The Metaphysics'.

    Because 'metaphysics' means something like 'beyond the physical' [literally meant as 'after' the book called 'the Physics'], confusion has set in, and most people mean a philosophy of the 'beyond', when they use the word Metaphysics.

    It is that Platonic Metaphysics [Idealism, Theory of Forms etc.,] which is 'dead'.
    I say this is a problem for Racial Nationalism because the latter is based in Idealism.

    The outlook of 'First Philosophy', which was pioneered by the Presocratics and then eclipsed by Platonism returned with Nietzscheanism.

    Nietzsche's 'Will to Power' is such a First Philosophy; however, I do not think it to be a suitable foundation for Spiritual Nationalism, which is Idealism.
    Nietzsche's philosophy rejected all Idealism.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, December 11th, 2006 at 01:58 PM. Reason: updated thread
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    I think I've got a really good idea on how to build a metaphysic for spiritual racialism, but I'll wait to see if someone can think of an idea that might work. I do think Moody was correct when he said what we need to do is provide a foundation for a Western (or pan-European) Aryanism - I don't think people in the West can connect to India, even supposing we do go back to our own tradition.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Given the two versions of Metaphysics, it seems to me that only the Idealist one can be linked to Spiritual Nationalism and indeed to Tradition and Lore.

    The version followed here of 'First Philosophy' is really in the domain of philosophy and science [see my thread on 'A Philosophy of Necessity' in the Philosophy forum].

    A basic problem for Idealist Metaphysics is that it tends towards Universalism; in other words, it has an all-embracing propensity.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
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    Post Re: After The Physics

    Originally posted by Moody Lawless
    It is that Platonic Metaphysics [Idealism, Theory of Forms etc.,] which is 'dead'.
    I say this is a problem for Racial Nationalism because the latter is based in Idealism.

    The outlook of 'First Philosophy', which was pioneered by the Presocratics and then eclipsed by Platonism returned with Nietzscheanism.

    Nietzsche's 'Will to Power' is such a First Philosophy; however, I do not think it to be a suitable foundation for Spiritual Nationalism, which is Idealism.
    Nietzsche's philosophy rejected all Idealism.
    It would really be great if you explained the main concepts of Platonic Metaphysics, Idealism, First Philosophy, and Nietzscheanism, and there relation to Racialism. That would help a lot.

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    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
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    Idealism: the theory that the ideal wields supremacy over the material. Marx said the other way around, which is Materialism by the Marxists. However, most modern racialists are also materialists - for them its all about genes, not spirit. Which is why I posed this question in the first place, because in my opinion whites aren't going to go to total war against other races in our borders over genes. We'll do it for God, for Fatherland, for Mother Europe, for the Spirit of the Age but we're the only race who won't spill blood without being told a reason why. Note we have to be LIED TO in order to go to war against Iraq.

    First Philosophy is the basics of all philosophy - the underlying nature of reality, the relation of man's consciousness to reality (Cartesian dualism is interesting - it holds that man's consciousness does not exist within the universe, but his body is a window the soul looks through to exercise his will upon the universe - similar to a "ghost in the machine" sort of relationship), the origins (sometimes a philosophy's metaphysics will not deal with this - Objectivism is an example) of the universe, etc. You've got to have metaphysics before you can have anything else in a philosophy. In the current age Objectivist (or aristotelian) metaphysics is generally accepted - that what you can touch, smell, see, hear and taste is real, that your consciousness resides inside your head and you can identify things by using intuition and reason to discover the unchangable 'essence' of an object. This essence does not change, in Aristotelian philosophy, but all things move towards the ultimate expression of their essences.

    Hegel took this and invented dialectical idealism, which the marxists later hijacked and flipped upside down. Hegel generally is not paid much attention to in the modern age. Hegel took the Aristotelian idea of essences and said that the world is essentially a war of ideas - that people create ideas, adopt those ideas and reality and modern politics is essentially the struggle of the fittest of ideals. He says that a Spirit is created by a few, expounded to the group, who assert their power over another group and that this is destiny. This worked brilliantly in service of the Prussians, when Hegel added the "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" trick. He said an idea is created, opposed by another idea and then both are beaten when a third idea rises out of the union of the higher truths of both of the competing ideals, and then the synthesis is opposed by an antithesis - and so on, all the time evolving towards the perfect ideal. Example - Nationalist capitalism is thesis, international Communism is antithesis, synthesis is National Socialism.

    However, Hegel said the following - the idea of Greek and Roman aristocracy is opposed by Oriental despotism, and the synthesis is the Absolute State, which was best represented at the time by Prussia, and the idea of the Absolute State was perfection, therefore Prussia had the absolute edge over other European countries. The Absolute State is imbued with the Spirit of the Nation (see my explanation of how Hegel linked Aristotle's essence idea with his own dialectic idealism).

    Now, on to Plato. Plato said there are two worlds - this world, which is constantly changing, decaying, and the world of the Forms. The world of the Forms is idealistic. The Forms are the absolute, perfect, unchangable ideas of how things are. They do not change, they are perfect. Things only exist and are identifiable so long as they adhere to the Form of that thing, so says Plato. Incidentally Plato's Form of Man is so similar to Nietzsche's Ubermensch its funny. Plato says the best state is that which achieves the Form of the State. BTW, Plato was also a eugenicist, a socialist and a racialist Since the Form of the State does not change, the best State is one that does not change. Therefore he pointed at Sparta and said that is the best State.

    Plato said the best republic is made along strict class divisions - workers, soldiers, philosopher kings. Philosopher Kings are the elite who can percieve the perfect ideal Forms (hereforth called the Forms) of the State and Man. Soldiers are the warrior class who protect the State with their lives and are held to the State through the "Earthborn myth" (what Karl Popper calls it) - this is similar to the Motherland ideal built up by patriotism and runs similar to the Blood and Soil doctrine of German national socialism. The purpose of education is to discover the inner nature of each person and ensure that every man works according to his inner nature - if a man is assigned his class against his nature that results in injustice and the decline of the State from its perfect form - inevitably, the fall of the State. Communism is only supposed to work for the warrior class and the Philosopher King elite. The workers are merchants and other money making people. The purpose of Communism for the warrior class is to develop a sense of brotherhood and loyalty to the State. The purpose of Communism for the Philosopher King elite is to prevent capitalist style division of the elite which inevitably results in the decline of the State from its absolute form - in other words, decay and destruction. According to Plato, a State goes from Aristocracy (rule of an elite which works towards the achievement of noble deeds) to Oligarchy (capitalist elite which exists for money). This evolves into Democracy (degenerate mass rule) which collapses into Anarchy, which then turns into Tyranny. The State can be driven back to its absolute Form through the will of a person capable of percieving the Form of the State, which is an absolute perfect unchangable ideal that does not exist within material reality. The Philosopher Kings must rule because they are capable of percieving the Forms of all things which exist, and therefore capable of percieving the perfect ideal of Man which is what the warrior class are to be built into - the State is merely a tool towards this end, but the State is built out of economic and spiritual neccesity. Towards this end, Eugenics is used towards the weeding out of unfit individuals from the worker and Soldier class (you can't build a super-State on retarded individuals). As you can tell, Platonism is hardcore Nationalist Communism - Plato envisioned the Republic (note that "The Republic" is the english interpretation of a Latin misinterpretation of the original Greek version which literally meant "The State") as a Pan-Greek state uniting every Greek city in the then-civilized world (Athens was seen as degenerate - Sparta was seen as more in tune with the absolute ideal Form of the State).

    The purpose of the State in Platonism is for the Philosopher Kings to build the Form of Man out of the Soldier class. The Form of Man is very similar to Nietzsche's Übermensch - strong, virile, quick of mind, energetic, honest, with a strong sense of integrity and independence. However, Plato wanted to dumb down the independence factor a bit because the State is the only thing permanent in the world and so the Form of the State should be supported and protected by a class of Form Men. Nietzsche wanted the end of the State and the introduction of what someone once called "Aristocratic Anarchism".

    Nietzsche doesn't mention eugenics much in his writings, and his metaphysics are purely limited to this world - according to Nietzsche, there is no otherworld, no perfect forms, just this thing here. There is no salvation and there is no hellfire, there is just this world. Accordingly we should stop praying for the lightning not to explode across our heads and get to work being the best we can be in this world. "What does not kill me makes me stronger" Nietzsche explains in Twilight of the Idols. Happiness, Nietzsche claims, is the conquest of hurdles and pain - accordingly, pain is to be welcomed with open eyes and a big grin rather than pleas to heaven and cringing in the corner. Nietzsche hated the State because he saw it as an oppressive structure which crushes the Free Spirits and thinkers and tells us what to do. Nietzsche wanted the destruction of Nationalism and the ushering in of a United Europe.

    A basic problem for Idealist Metaphysics is that it tends towards Universalism; in other words, it has an all-embracing propensity.
    An idealist metaphysic for Spiritual Racialism has to cover everything. That's our basic problem, and its also the reason why I'm trying to find out a spiritual difference between Aryans and the Arabs.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

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