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Thread: The Big Bang Theory and God

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Before big bang, why: Singularity. Beyond universe: universe being a closed curve, there is no beyond. More dimensions: not yet. Parellel universes: not yet. Speck of dust: not yet. Matter/energy: Question 1. Time: with big bang. Infinite time: could be. What do you think, Kotromanic?

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post

    Anything that organized cannot be hot which is a force of disorganization. So, a black hole, or a Black Sun is cold--deep cold. You could look upon heat as enthropy--disorganization and cold as negative enthropy--organization. We think that human intellect is a kind of organization in which electrical impulses are routed within our brains to form intelligence.

    Some people do believe that this Black Sun is a god. In this aspect, a Black Sun is seen as Odin's one eye, a sign of knowledge and power. Aether energy is sometimes called Vril energy. Infusion of Vril energy raises the quality of life for an individual. .

    Isn't aether but the back ground heat in the cosmos. Basically leftover heat from the big bang? Electrical impulses, the mind, could not operate at 0 kelvin being electricity is energy. Electricity would be expelled.



    Well here is my view.

    The cosmos is love (female) and hate(male) [empodocles] Ying/Yang interactions.

    The cosmos is a perpetual cycle of expansion and contraction. But energy always remains the same.

    Fire/Light - Hate - Expansion (Space/Time) God/Irminsul/Asgard...etc........

    God is the Fire which is Hate. Hate is aversion, moving away, this is cosmic expansion. Thus from the point of singularity was the highest point of tempurature and the universe is cooling down, and expanding. This is the cosmos. The expansion is the cause of space/time. The Mind is in the Fire and the God is an everliving Fire. The mind is electrical impulses (Thorn) which moves across galaxies. God's thought/the SuperMind is Logos, or logic which is natural/scientific law. This is also Magic or Rune Magn(power). In fact, God's Ideas are Runes. Thus Rune Magic is about conecting to God(Wotan-the cosmic Mind) and gaining Rune Power. Fire is also change, because expansion is movement. Thus, God is only living in the universe where thought can only live. Thought is movement. Typeing is movement as are ideas. Without movement, there is no thought, no being. But this is all a result of cosmological expansion which is Hate, strife, or Fire. But Fire cools and becomes material eventually collapsing into a black hole through Love, UNITY.

    Black Hole and Love - Contraction (into stasis, no time/energy) Jotun/Hel/.......

    Pure matter has no energy, thus no electricity, thus no mind, thus no Gods. This is where the other duality of the cosmos is - Love or Matter. The Female principle. The Black hole universal Love which is about contraction or of plurality to unity. There is no Gods there, no mind, no electricity. It is Nifelhel. Love sucks all energy, will, fire, mind, soul from beings. This contraction happens until there is so much matter that space runs out, to a point of SINGULARITY and an explosion occurs because there is a breaking point , thus restarting the whole process over again.Thus, live is an eternal process of expansion (God/Fire/Mind) and contraction( Jotun/Ice/Matter).
    Last edited by Airmanareiks; Tuesday, January 30th, 2007 at 10:54 PM.

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Aether was considered the instellar medium.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_theories

    What is the intersellar medium? Cosmic Radiation Background which is the intersellar medium left after the big bang.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_...ound_Radiation


    Heat is agitation of matter? I stated Energy/Fire is Hate. This is movement. Love is pure Matter/Ice or non Movement.

    If there was not Hate/Aversion/Movement away,
    there would be no Heat/Energy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

    You say Aether is primary physics. What is that?

    You are using Schappeller's definition.

    Schappeller claimed to have discovered a thermodynamic cycle which runs opposite to the conventional 2nd law of thermodynamics. In other words it is a cycle, which reduces the entropy of a system, whereas the normal 2nd law of thermodynamics leads to an increase of entropy. Incidentally, Schrodinger(8), the father of quantum mechanics, noted in his book “What is Life” that the in the life process is associated with negative entropy. This of course means that life process is producing order out of chaos. The earth out of which living things grow is thermodynamically in a state of relatively high entropy or disorder. Life converts this disorder to order. Schappeller was saying that the life process was the manifestation of a real physical thermodynamic cycle or law, and the result of a real physical force.

    Schappellar also said that nature uses this reverse thermodynamic cycle all the time and this activity IS the life process. This is the reason he attached the words bio- to energy processes involved in the reverse thermodynamics.

    The negative entropic force seems similar to a charge; rather in the manner that matter can carry an electric charge so can it carry another form of charge, the vital charge. But it can also loose this charge and when it does it is dead inert manner that falls under the second law of thermodynamics.

    When matter carries the vital charge it enters into an oscillatory condition which Schappeller called the entropic spiral or oscillation, which in natural world usually took a spiral form. The two ends of the oscillatory process are order and disorder or a positive and negative entropic (thermodynamic) process.

    To get this to happen Schappeller proposed producing an electromagnetic field which besides the electric charge also carried the vital charge referred to above. This life charged electromagnet is Schappeller's "dynomagnet" or stator. The oscillating electromagnetic field will not die down through losses as with an ordinary tuned circuit but is maintained in oscillation by the negative entropic action of the vital charge.

    Schappeller's magnet was simply a coil of tubing containing a special material "the sublimate" carrying the required vital charge. So the energy in the electromagnetic field is built up by the vital charge and dissipated in the usual manner in a load or motor of some sort. What happened is the establishment of an "electromagnetic-vital mass" which Davson called glowing magnetism. This state is impossible without the presence of the vital charge. Davson thought that Schappeller had done this basic experiment with Wetzel and Gfoellner early on and that it worked in principle, but whether it had stability or other problems is not known.

    The isolation of the vital charge is the key to the whole of the Schappeller concept, in that respect it is totally different to any other proposed energy machine. Of course, no one has any idea of what the vital charge is and how to get it, here however is a clue from Wetzel and Gfoener's Raumkraft(6):-

    "Schappeller studied the essence, the operation of the electric circuit in all its features, starting from the simple zinc-carbon cell as an electric source. He found that electricity is latent in any subject as a magnetostatic force and by the production of a suitable circuit it becomes activated. As is well known any metal pair such (iron, copper, etc.)and carbon [an electrolyte] and a proper circuit transfers the less cohesive force of zinc to the more firmly bound carbon....The most important result of his research was the winning of electricity from stone, from which vital electric force is produced in contrast to the dead electricity made when metals are used. This is because stone, due to its early origins contains remanents of the vital force of the organisms that built it when the crust of the earth was formed."


    Schappeller's H and O; what does this mean ?
    This is one of the most difficult part of Schappeller's theory. The best place to start is In Wetzel and Gfoellner's Raumkraft(6):

    Here is a direct quote: (Please excuse the quality of the translation!)

    (Note:- "Urkraft" means fundamental force, origin force or space force, also vacuum force)

    "Here it is necessary to return back to the study of Schappeller’s year long occupation with the method of operation of the "Urkraft" (which he had recognized as magnetostatic force). This lead him to the urgent study of electricity. He recognized electricity as a concentrically operating gas, consisting of hydrogen and oxygen bonded by the force of the vacuum (Urkraft). In each electron this vacuum force is present; because each electron is divided into north and south poles and thus is a tiny magnetostatic force space. However, as already presented, any magnetostatic force area [volume] because it is a space force encloses the Urkraft, it is consequently accessible to any stimulation and can, with an appropriate impulse be charged. This discovery of Schappeller, experimentally tested, has the most tremendous consequence".

    According to Davson the state of the hydrogen and oxygen mentioned in the above extract is not that of the common chemical substances known to physics but is another state which he termed the "energy condition". The space force or Urkraft, a magnestostatic force, binds H and O both in the energy condition together. H and O in the energy state are therefore in mutual repulsion. The H and O energies are fundamental polarities from which all matter and forces are made. It incidental that they are most easily accessible through water and also electromagnetism. Schappeller believed that the attraction force exerted by the vacuum of space on the mutually repulsive H and O energies is magnetic, so that H and O in the energy state become two opposite unipolar magnetic charges, but note there are three forces two provided by H and o energies and the third by the action of space itself. A common magnetic field has all three forces acting along the whole of the field direction and so forms closed circuits. The magnetic charge itself has been searched for by conventional physics but so far has remained undiscovered. Ref. magnetic Monopole. These charges do not exist in a bar magnet, because the field there is in the form of closed loops, the poles are only apparent not real. Schappeller termed the magnetic field found in a common bar magnet and also the magnetic around an electric current "impolar". The magnetic field from a magnetic monopole starts from or terminates on a magnetic charge exactly analogous to an electric charge. Felix Ehrenhaft claimed to have detected magnetiic charges as does, more recently V. F. Mikhailov(7)

    The peculiar use of H and O labels for magnetic charges seems to arise from a curious idea/discovery that the two magnetic charges do not just slam together and neutralise as might be expected but are mutually repulsive, with space acting as a sort of spring holding the two polarities together. The apparent result is the building of a sort of quasi-matter which Schappeller called fluidum. He told Davson that fluidum itself condenses into water, with the release of a huge amount of energy in the form of electricity. This happens in the thundercloud and is the cause of lightning, but also water as condensed out of the fundamental magnetic H and O energies can be though of conversely as fluid magnetism(!). This is an extension of his discovery that magnetic charges exist in a self neutralising (impolar) form as common magnetism in the field from a bar magnet. For my own part, asking Davson the question: "can you get magnetic charge back from water", apparently not easily, since electric charge always results but the life process can and does. The vital charge mentioned previously appears to be the result of the mutually repulsive monopolar magnetic charge. From what was said earlier, the magnetic charge and binding force offered by space against their mutual repulsion is the source of an order building negative entropic field and this is the reason why water as a condensate out of magnetism is the place from which life originates and in which it exists. Schappeller termed the process of condensation of magnetic charges into matter "sublimation" analogous to chemical sublimation. It seems that the H and O magnetic charges are only detectable under negative entropy conditions, so conventional instrumentation only sees the positive entropic condition of electricity, that is to say the magnetic charges disintegrate into electric charge. A simple illustration of this fact is seen when a physicist attempts to measure chinese acupuncture points on the human body, the electronic instrument probe merely sees points of changed electrical potential, the vital H and O magnetic current of the negative entropic vital force is decomposed or collapses into electric charge due to the physical instrumentation. However dowsers and the like can detect the magnetic current directly due to its effect upon the living organism of the dowser.


    Schappeller's Ether the power of the Vacuum and Magnetism
    Schappellar believed in an all pervading ether. From what has alredy been said it will be no surprise to learn that the ether is bipolar magnetic in nature with the two poles "equalised out". He seemed to think that the ether was a sort of elastic magnetic gas and could be displaced to some extent even by ordinary matter, but at the same time could also support tension as when it holds together mutually repulsive magnetic charges. If the air were pumped out of a glass sphere the ether would fill the space previously occupied by air. The ether seems to be similar to the fluidum mentioned above. It is only one step to regarding matter as held together by ether pressure but this is not explicitly stated. Curiously the ether remaining inside the evacuated sphere is deemed to exert a pull or attraction or suction on the walls of the container causing the material of the walls to vapourise into the etheric condition and fill the container. This etheric vacuum force is deemed to be the only force capable of separating the magnetic monopoles (The ether holds the mutually repulsive magnetic charges together, but in an intense ambient etheric field the magnetic H and O charges can act independently. It appears to operate in an analogous manner to the way salt dissolves in waterwith a separation of the sodium and chloride ions).

    Magnetic charges exert a direct action on the ether and operate through it. Also the magnetic charges besides being mutually repulsive tend one pole to expand and the other to contract. This effect if intense enough cause a polarisation of the ether into its magnetic components which are also considered to have opposite tendencies one of expansion and the other of contraction while at the same time exerting a mutual attraction on the ether. This results in "egg and yolk" configuration with a tension between; the sun and stars and planets have this configuration. The interpolar exchange of the two magnetic charges builds the negative entropic force mentioned earlier. These three caused by H-space-O fields oscillate in a process of energy exchange. The energy is built by the negative entropic processes but originates in the more disordered magnetic charges. The earth itself contains an H charge which is condensed in its core and an O field in the atmosphere repelling the H core and attempting to expand outwards. The vacuum force of space penetrating right through matter couples the two together forming a tension field like a spring between two opposing forces, this was termed a stressfield. Schappeller believed that life itself exists as a result of this tension or stressfield and is the vital force.

    A magnetic field or electric charge is devitalised or dead if it will not react to the vacuum of space. The reason is that such fields are internally self contained. The magnetic charges and vacuum of space are imprisoned in closed loops or terminate on other charges in the case of electric charge. The common magnetic field loops would have to be opened out and linked into space as also with the electric charge. This does not appear to be possible without Schappeller's stator or Prime mover.

    Clearly then a magnetic material has to be found which does not devitalise the magnetism absorbed from the vacuum of space, this is the function of Schappeller's special magnet or sublimate. The field produced has negative entropic characteristics.

    The Prime Mover or Power Sphere
    The well known image of the "Prime Mover" with its spherical shape and coils of tubing wound spirally on the periphery was in fact drawn by a marine engineer by the name of Cooper. This design was made under Schappeller's direction probably in response to the British Admiralty's request for a drawing. In reference(2) page 251 and 252 there are the well known drawings of the Prime Mover which consists of a hollow airtight sphere surrounded on the periphery with a coil of tubing. The tubing contains a material which Schappeller's called his sublimate. The sublimate is analogous to the electrostatic electret except that it is magnetically charged not electrically charged. From what has been said it is clear that it is some substrate charged with unipolar static magnetic charge which he believed he could produce. The idea is to produce a field inside the sphere which is self sustaining due to its negative entropic characteristic. For this reason Davson named it a biomagnetic field.


    The Prime Mover is not a free energy machine
    The Prime mover "burns electricity" by splitting it into unipolar magnetic charge. From what has been said previously, it can be seen that ordinary magnetism as from a bar magnet could only be split into its monopolar magnetic charges if it could be opened out from its incestuous state. The result would be the release of a hitherto dormant negative entropic potential, So it must be assumed that to Schappeller, electricity and magnetism internally and in particular water are not in their lowest energy state. The operation through the space force is used by the life process and the other state is towards more order, so there is negative entropy energy associated with this process.

    Schappeller's method of producing the magnetic charge initially is unknown. Joseph Schappeller died in 1960. I was told by someone who talked to Joseph Schappeller's housekeeper that she was instructed to burn all the Schappeller papers. She related that there were many technical drawing etc.



    http://www.rexresearch.com/schapp/schapp.htm
    Last edited by Airmanareiks; Thursday, February 1st, 2007 at 09:46 PM.

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Draco, 'God does so and so by virtue of being God' is certainly a non-answer, at least the science people accept that they do not know. Rhydderch, accepting that we do not know causes less problems that saying falsely that we know.

    So now, earth is not the center of the universe, big bang is OK, next step (as it should be) evolution is OK. The Catholic church seems to be moving with times. What next, no God OK, Jesus was not the Son, versions of Gospel are fiction by Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John? Why then wars and evangelism? Why did they jail Galelio or burn people on stakes?

    Tommy Vercetti, believe in something and upto something that is proven. You will be stronger because of that. Agrippa, rules are made by society.

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav
    So now, earth is not the center of the universe, big bang is OK, next step (as it should be) evolution is OK. The Catholic church seems to be moving with times.
    The Catholic Church has already taken that last step, and stated evolution need not be in conflict with Catholic Christianity.

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Good, do they stop with that?

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    Re: Not with a Bang, but a Whimper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody View Post
    Unfortunately, the theory you expound does not touch the God-hypothesis.
    This is because the Big Bang cannot explain;
    1) What existed BEFORE the Big bang, and
    2) Why did the Big Bang occur when it did?
    There was a documentary some time ago where they came up with another "theory" about the big bang. This time around they went all out covering their butts on almost every angle.

    Now they say parallel universes... The Big Bang happened when 2 other Universes collided against each other. How did the other two come into being? Probably 4 more collided 2 against 2, making the other 2 and inevitably making our universe. But how did those 4 come into being? So you can see that it can go on into infinity, in the end however where did the first universe come from, how did it come into being with NOTHING to start with.

    It is a good subject if you want to bang your head against a wall as a means to show the world how smart you really are(Figuring this sort of stuff out). In the end however, science itself is becoming a mythology.

    So there is both points you asked in one answer. Before our Universe there were other universes, the Big Bang occurred when they collided.

    Of course these universes ironically enough also has a completely different laws of physics and other fun stuff.

    Likewise, we must ask why did life evolve when it did?
    How was there a point when there was no life, and then life occurred?
    Chance, another favorite word of the scientists. Then they accuse the religious people of being "hocus pocus" when they believe God created the Universe and ALL of its earthly bodies and fleshy inhabitants. All this while they expect us to believe "Chance" as an indisputable scientific "fact".

    The odds of it happening is one out of too much to count in one life time. They answer then "It already happened, it doesn't have to happen again". Of course if they make an endless space with trillions upon trillions of universes they also cover their butts. Somewhere out there there has to be live, Chance would have secured it for them too, if you go by the odds. The more the merrier.

    Ultimately, the Big Bang theory is just a secular version of Creationism and has been easily absorbed by Christian/Islamic Theology, for example.
    I actually think it was meant to stand against it. The scientists today however take it so far that their theories are beginning to border on insanity. People will be more sane believing some "hocus pocus" God created the universe.

    Some scientists even warned against this, in the end they're running themselves into a corner with their theories and it's not looking good.

    Chance is their divine being...

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    Re: The Big Bang Theory and God

    Good, the theists cover their butts with just one line, 'God did it'. See page ... of ... . Q.E.D. Smart, no? It is another matter if it is not covered fully.
    Last edited by Aupmanyav; Saturday, February 3rd, 2007 at 03:43 AM.

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    The Big Bang Theory and God

    Quote Originally Posted by Erzherzog_Bernd View Post
    The Big Bang happened when 2 other Universes collided against each other. How did the other two come into being? Probably 4 more collided 2 against 2, making the other 2 and inevitably making our universe. But how did those 4 come into being? ...
    Below is a real photograph of 2 galaxies colliding.


    Life is Energy Transference (big bang/fire/mind/hate/Columb Force to big crunch/ice/matter/love/Gravity, to Explosion again to Big Bang........A Cosmic Cycle) but the amount of total energy remains the same. Thus, the cosmos is eternal.

    Gravity=Love=Collapse=Black Hole




    vs



    Columb Force = Hate=Expansion=Fire


    http://physnet.org/home/modules/pdf_modules/m114.pdf

    Here are come articles concerning this thread which may further the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erzherzog_Bernd View Post
    Now they say parallel universes... The Big Bang happened when 2 other Universes collided against each other. How did the other two come into being? Probably 4 more collided 2 against 2, making the other 2 and inevitably making our universe. ...

    Instead of one fire ball expanding, creating space/time which is entropic(choatic), I believe you are refering to Fractual Theory which believe that their are multiple creations in the cosmos which is not entropic but . You may view them as Quasars exploding from an a collapse of a black hole. This is an eternal process that we can observe around us. The expansion/contraction processes is what creates worlds/dimensions/different time, thus relativity.

    Fractals and Cosmology
    Recent versions of the inflationary cosmos theory assert that instead of being an expanding ball of fire the universe is a huge growing fractal. It consists of many inflating balls that produce new balls, which in turn produce more balls, ad infinitum. This scenario similarly describes the universe as a self-generating fractal that sprouts other inflationary universes.


    http://members.aol.com/SpinChaos/PageCos.html
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    ElectroDynamics Big Bang.pdf  
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, February 15th, 2007 at 12:41 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts

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