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Thread: The Big Bang Theory and God

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    Senior Member Demigorgona's Avatar
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    Post The Big Bang Theory and God

    There is now little doubt that our universe was brought into existence by a "big bang" that occurred some 15 billion years ago. The existence of such a creation event explains a number of phenomena including the expansion of the universe, the existence of the cosmic background radiation, and the relative proportions of various sorts of matter.

    According to the Big Bang theory, there was an explosion out of nothing and there was nothing there before it. Most elements can be derived from hydrogen, but where did the hydrogen come from? It was suggested that it could be created with a colossal high temperature from subatomic particles. Some finds that back up the big bang are; the universe is still expanding and there are still slight variations in the temperature in space to suggest that space is still cooling.

    It all begins with a dramatic big bang producing nothing but tremendous heat. As the heat spreads out slight variations occur. The hot spots start to convert into particles and antiparticles. The slightly cooler ones become the first voids in space. These particles start to be drawn together by gravity by a electromagnetic force to make them combine. Most of the anti-matter is lost in annihilations leaving only matter swirling around in clumps. It takes 300,000 years for space to cool down enough for electrons to combined with the nuclei of the subatomic particles to form the first atoms. It takes 1,000,000,000 for enough helium and hydrogen atoms to clump together to form the first cosmic bodies (typically whole galaxies). And the rest is history.


    Life was able to sustain itself, grow, and evolve on Earth because the conditions here allowed it.

    There are several theories as to how life occured here on earth. I myself believe the theory that we evolved from Bacteria that came to earth by way of falling meteors.

    However, that hasn't been proven yet of course

    If the earth didn't have all that it does, we either wouldn't be here discussing why science is wrong, or life on earth would be profoundly different. It's all coincidence and luck. Perfect conditions are needed for life. It's silly to say its impossible...to have these exact conditions without having some superior being around to just create it all perfectly. The fact of the matter is that there was a chance of it all coming together properly on at LEAST one planet out of millions in this universe! (and who is to to say that we are the only one!)

    So goes the pro-God logic among us. Let the person of reason and logic judge.

    I suggest reading this article:

    http://www.secularhumanism.org/libra...mith_18_2.html


    Is it nonetheless possible that God could have caused this universe? No. For the Wave Function of the Universe implies that there is a 95% probability that the universe came into existence uncaused. If God created the universe, he would contradict this scientific law in two ways. First, the scientific law says that the universe would come into existence because of its natural, mathematical properties, not because of any supernatural forces. Second, the scientific law says that the probability is only 95% that the universe would come into existence. But if God created the universe, the probability would be 100% that it would come into existence because God is allpowerful. If God wills the universe to come into existence, his will is guaranteed to be 100% effective.
    Which pretty much means, if you believe in a higher being, you can't follow the big bang theory. You cant have it both ways

    Here's more interesting articles for other non-theists and atheists...

    http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...k/bigbang.html

    http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...h/bigbang.html

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Not with a Bang, but a Whimper.

    Unfortunately, the theory you expound does not touch the God-hypothesis.
    This is because the Big Bang cannot explain;
    1) What existed BEFORE the Big bang, and
    2) Why did the Big Bang occur when it did?

    Likewise, we must ask why did life evolve when it did?
    How was there a point when there was no life, and then life occurred?

    Ultimately, the Big Bang theory is just a secular version of Creationism and has been easily absorbed by Christian/Islamic Theology, for example.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Arrow Big Bang Theory

    http://ssscott.tripod.com/BigBang.html

    Excellent site for those interested in the afforementioned topic.
    Last edited by Tore; Friday, August 8th, 2003 at 08:15 AM.

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    Senior Member Götterschicksal's Avatar
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    The only hard thing I find about this theory is that one must believe the universe started as a mass of junk. What was before? Who or what triggered the event? Why? It is an interesting theory, but it is still a theory - we will never know.
    „Sollten Sie dabei sein, wenn ich sterbe, so werden Sie sehen, dass ich ruhig dahinscheide; denn ich glaube, dass nach dem Tode alles zu Ende ist.”
    Friedrich der Große

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    The only hard thing I find about this theory is that one must believe the universe started as a mass of junk. What was before? Who or what triggered the event? Why? It is an interesting theory, but it is still a theory - we will never know.
    That is a good point.

    Everything is derived from something, and the process is continuous.

    Science can only trace our origins back so far without running into such an obstacle.

    Of course, creationists like to point this out as the flaw in the theory of evolution, as "everyone must come from something," however, the theory of creation hold the very same flaw as surely a God must have its origins as well.

    Perhaps it's widespread acceptance in the scientific largely rests on the fact that an alternative theory is lacking.

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    Senior Member Götterschicksal's Avatar
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    Humans must come to the reaization that we are stupid and we will never know. Scientists will find ways to explain why we are here, and religions will do the same aswell. In the universe we are sooooooooo small, it isn't even funny. The funny thing is, is that we make up stuff to make ourselves feel more important, like that a god created us in his own image.

    You are right the Creation Myth has that flaw aswell. Who is the God of God? He must have been created, there must have been something before. Most creation myths start out with, "In the beginning."
    The beginning of what? Everything? If that is the case, where did God come from?

    Btw.. I will say the Big Bang and Evolution are the best theories we have for now.
    Last edited by Götterschicksal; Friday, August 8th, 2003 at 09:05 PM.
    „Sollten Sie dabei sein, wenn ich sterbe, so werden Sie sehen, dass ich ruhig dahinscheide; denn ich glaube, dass nach dem Tode alles zu Ende ist.”
    Friedrich der Große

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    Senior Member cosmocreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Götterschicksal
    Who is the God of God?

    That would be me. And you must never question it -- or else


    Existence has always existed. It can not be otherwise. Creationism and evolutionism seem to be contrary and maybe they were created to turn people against one another. Something has to be created before it can evolve. And evolution creates new life forms. They are not mutual exclusive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Götterschicksal
    Humans must come to the reaization that we are stupid and we will never know. Scientists will find ways to explain why we are here, and religions will do the same aswell. In the universe we are sooooooooo small, it isn't even funny. The funny thing is, is that we make up stuff to make ourselves feel more important, like that a god created us in his own image.

    You are right the Creation Myth has that flaw aswell. Who is the God of God? He must have been created, there must have been something before. Most creation myths start out with, "In the beginning."
    The beginning of what? Everything? If that is the case, where did God come from?

    Btw.. I will say the Big Bang and Evolution are the best theories we have for now.
    I forget what this theory is called but it basically is the reverse of the Big Bang theory. Apparently in several billion years, the universe might have expanded so much, that matter begins to collapse inwards due to the vacuum created by the matter exiting the region of space where the Big Bang might have occured. Apparently the effects of this would be similar to a large black hole. I was thinking, maybe all the matter in this universe came from an older one before it, which collapsed on its self, became extremely dense and exploded out again, creating this universe.

    Also, we get into the problem of parallel universes, which I think have been mathamatically proven to exist. I wonder how science tries to explain the creation of those? I will search the net on this topic and see what I come up with.

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    Senior Member Götterschicksal's Avatar
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    Premisyl, that is the expansionism theory. It isn't a rival of the Big Bang, but rather an attempt to explain that the universe is a continuing cycle.
    „Sollten Sie dabei sein, wenn ich sterbe, so werden Sie sehen, dass ich ruhig dahinscheide; denn ich glaube, dass nach dem Tode alles zu Ende ist.”
    Friedrich der Große

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    Senior Member Stríbog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Götterschicksal
    Premisyl, that is the expansionism theory. It isn't a rival of the Big Bang, but rather an attempt to explain that the universe is a continuing cycle.
    That's the "oscillating" vs. static universe debate, which is also related to the open vs. closed universe debate. The universe is known to be expanding because of red shifts. However, what is it expanding against??? Is there an eventual barrier it will reach (closed model) or will it eternally expand towards the endless nothingness (open)?
    The "what God created God"/"what was before the Big Bang" debate either creates infinite regression, or creates a "something from nothing" scenario. Even whether time itself once had a beginning is hotly contested. Of course, if time itself had a beginning, and that beginning was the Big Bang, then the issue of what was "before" the Big Bang is irrelevant.

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