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Thread: Paradigm Shift in Racial Analysis

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    Account Inactive Von Braun's Avatar
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    Post Paradigm Shift in Racial Analysis

    Perhaps racial clasification could benefit from an analagous approach taken by chemistry. In the latter, all normal matter is broken down into indivisible (for everyday purposes) elements, each having their own unique properties.

    Oftentimes, in an analysis, an individual is said to a mixture of two groups, where one group itself is said to be a combination of subgroups. For isntance, an individual described as a Alpine/Dinaric mix is Alpine via the former designation as well as the latter (since Dinarics are partially Alpine). Likewise, some Nordish groups are mixtures of various elements, Norics are Dinaric and Nordic, Sub-Nordics are Nordic and Apline, etc.

    When an individual is classified, why not describe him or her in terms of the most basic racial elements, rather than this hodgepodge scheme of mixing and matching basic groups (elements) with derived blended groups (compounds)? This would be a much more streamlined approach.

    The only problem is identifying the most basic racial elements. Perhaps East Baltic, Alpine, Nordic, and Mediterranean would suffice for now (or the sub-groups within those groups).
    Last edited by Von Braun; Monday, March 24th, 2003 at 08:39 AM.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Elemental, my dear von Braun

    The 'subraces' aren't "elements" in the scientific/chemical sense.

    They are, as their names suggest, based on the anthropological observation of differing types according to geographical location in recent history.

    A categorisation based on the Genome would accord more with your suggestion.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 24th, 2003 at 04:19 PM.
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    Post Re: Paradigm Shift in Racial Analysis

    Originally posted by Von Braun
    races are average of similar types as subraces also are. you will mostly not find two identical hallstats as in concrete as a hydogen atom. for example 1/1000 size of any difference does not exist between two atomic hydrogen but it may exist and often more between any individuals of the same subrace.

    you may find variations from a centralized average as you go to the borders that is why sometimes the galleries of SNPA is criticized as it varies the subraces may overlap.

    i think what impresses von braun is the mathematical expression of nature. as two mol iranoafgan one mol alpin.

    this ,which is coons style, is infact a little functional, some pragmatist a little descriptivist but still within the range of naturalism/positivism. infact naturalism unlike what it is supposed to be is not the counter part of idealism/projectivism but an escape. for a positivist science is the attempt to accumulate expalantory and predictive knowledge about the world. to achieve this is to build general statments that describes the systematic relationships and interactions in the outer world.

    according to naturalism to explain something is to show that it is a part of the certain order and prediction is done on the same basis. these statements are true ,if they are ever true, contingently. they cannot be known apriori and instead they should be tested by observation and experimets. the role of a positivist is in fact is not to get behind what is shown to us by our perception. the aim of a scientist is not to get what is behind or beyond and to explain the mechanisms which somehow made it possible or the nature of it . for a positivist there are not mandatory relationships inside the nature. and neobehaviorism is typically positivist.

    as races are not concrete for example what is the meaning of ancient mongoloid mixture. to be descriptive we may accept the terminology of Coon or Lundmann or anybodies and they will be valid within certain limitations and it is a convention to choose which one. still after we have seen one billiard of white swans we cannot be sure the next one will be white.

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    Account Inactive Von Braun's Avatar
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    @ asparukh

    True, the analogy only goes so far. What I would like to see is a shift from saying "that guy over there is a sub-Nordic (Alpine/Nordic)/Mediterranean mix" to instead saying "that guy over there is x % Alpine, y % Nordic, and z % Mediterranean (where x + y + z = 100)"

    Moody's suggestion would allow a much closer analagous approach to chemical analysis. Genes consist of a few codons, which are strings of three base pairs, which are each a few atoms. Genes, which control the phenotype (with some environmental modification of ccurse), are much closer to the atom than the defined racial types are. In the not-too-distant future, this genome-based approach may become a reality.

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    Problem is, classifying human groups by chemical equations is not quite as 'sexy' as those older classifications which allude to cultural, political and geographical features.
    Last edited by Moody; Thursday, March 27th, 2003 at 07:58 PM.
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    Oftentimes, in an analysis, an individual is said to a mixture of two groups, where one group itself is said to be a combination of subgroups. For isntance, an individual described as a Alpine/Dinaric mix is Alpine via the former designation as well as the latter (since Dinarics are partially Alpine).
    There is no problem! If you are not blonde, you are no Aryan. Dinaric, levantic, it is all semitic to me.

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    Account Inactive goidelicwarrior's Avatar
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    Originally posted by roine
    There is no problem! If you are not blonde, you are no Aryan. Dinaric, levantic, it is all semitic to me.
    i agree... everyone not blonde should be eliminated, and more importantly, this should be applied regardless of nation...

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    Well, thanks goodness I am blonde than. Now do not ruin this thread with further idiocy.

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    Account Inactive goidelicwarrior's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nazzjonalist
    Well, thanks goodness I am blonde than. Now do not ruin this thread with further idiocy.
    i agree.. it was kind of ironic... blondism is but one characteristic of the Caucasian race.. in the north of Scandinavia there are blonds with semislanted eyes and broad skulls.. hardly the ideal phenotype for a European.. or ?? an example, a politician called Tornman..
    Last edited by goidelicwarrior; Friday, March 28th, 2003 at 12:45 PM.

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    And of course we forgot our jewish blonds....













    No doubt many people here would call them superior to gentile whites who don't happen have such fair coloring...

    Personally I get sick of all this brunet hating, because even a signifcant number of Halstatts have brown hair. There is no white subrace that DOESN'T have a brown haired presence!
    Last edited by GreenHeart; Friday, March 28th, 2003 at 10:10 PM.

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