Racialism & Socialism

[Ederico]

In another thread a discussion regarding Socialism was started. It is possible that under a Racialist aspect we can incorporate aspects of Socialism in a Racialist World-View. Do you think this is a viable alternative? What elements of Socialism might we incorporate into Racialism?

Or are you in favour of the Capitalist system and believe that Racialism should be combined with Capitalism?

[Ederico]

Originally posted by Jotunheim
Yes I tend to agree but Communism as an ideal was meritocratic too.

How was it Meritocratic? This is the first time I hear this.

I disagree with the Marxist ideal of non ownership of property and the wanton distribution of funds.

I disagree with the abolition of Private Property, but what do you mean by wanton distribution of funds? Is it "to each according to his needs"?

I agree that we should all be rewarded according to our own 'worth' to the state and society.

I agree as well.

I tend to believe that the central classes should work closer together but Marx stated that the proletariat is both the worker of the mind as well as the body.

I did not understand this, who are the central classes?

I think that the lower and the upper classes are non contributist elements, the proletariat and bourgeoisie mutually need each other but the other classes should either be removed from any seat of power or sent to work camps, yes, there's a touch of Stalin in me!!!!!

Are you referring to the Unemplyed and the Aristocracy?

Inevitably though, there will always be flaws in whatever system is made, that is why I favour an organic approach to Socialism, one that develops and evolves according to the distinctive socio-economic status of the state/society/volk etc.

This sounds interesting, please go into further detail. What do you mean by "organic approach to Socialism"?

I am not a globalist, I feel that this only benefits the corrupt states that can not even look after their own people and the jews and their allies in the banks.

I think I am more of a 'cooperatist', where I believe in mutual cooperation with other nations / people for the benefit of all.

I agree with you, but I am not a Globalist most importantly because I am Racialist, and therefore it is my Race that is most important, it takes precedence over Humanity, and that is my main focus.

Currently though, we have an anachronistic class structure in our society, this is both the fabrication of the workers who refuse to develop and the middle classes that refuse to allow them to do so. This idealogy is counterproductive to any nations development. It is evident that something must be down to dissolve this situation. But then again, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, so some people might be happy living their lives, as long as they contribute to society, then that is OK? Or what do you think?

If they are happy we should not seek to change their state.

Suffrage is something I would only consider on a representative level, the masses can vote on key issues once a year, these will be passed through a checking process and that will be the policy for that term.

If we disallow the masses to speak what they feel then we are in danger of becoming tyrants and they inevitably always fall.

A benevolent, authoritarian, representative cooperative that has the faith and goodwill of the common volk will in my eyes be more productive than some tin pot Caucescua / Pol Pot / Idi Amin et al.

Political representation of the Masses is something that must be discussed considering a Meritocratic and Technocractic position. Universal Suffrage is not a Divine Right. A System whereby those with the brains and skills to decide for the Nation should decide is what will determine progress for the Nation, not Mass decisions where the huge majority of the electorate is unintelligible on Administrative, Legislative, and Executive matters.

Although progress is not for all, the ability to progress should be!

I agree.

[NatRev]

By the central masses I meant the working and middle classes.

The unemployed do not constitue a class as any one can be unemployed, it is a financial situation that should be the responsibilty of the state as most people who are unemployed have paid some contributions to this via taxes.

The difference is between the unemployED and the unemployABLE, the latter are a social sub class that choose not to work but to instead live off the welfare state and thus take more than what they put in.

Of course we can condemn all people for this, for example my sister became pregnant at the age of 17 when she was a student, she left college and brought up her child, my beautiful niece. During my nieces baby years, my sister relied on state benefit to supplement her income. However, my sister also continued with her studies when my niece was able to attend nursery and now works as a full time nursery teacher.

Although my sister was unemployABLE, this was due to her situation, she is of course now a fully commited member of our society and pays her fair share of taxes.

It is the class that choose to exploit their situations and rely not on hard work either through mind or hand that I am more concerned with.

Maybe this is something you do not have so much of in Malta as it has quite a small population, but in the UK, and I guess in most western countries, we have a fair share of non-contributing welfare leeches that suck the money from the wallets of the tax payer.

Of course, provision musty be given to the elderly and sick but families that continue to have children without being able to provide for them should have their benefits stopped, they don't bring up their children right, they are a disfunctional family unit and they do not grow up to be productive citizens, they just leech off the state and never do a days work.

The aristocrats are the same.

I am sick and tired of their pathetic existence, they contribute nothing to our society and are parasites that feed of our hard work. I feel there is a touch of Robes Pierre in me too!

Have you ever seen STARSHIP TROOPERS?

I know you're not one for films but if you see this at the video shop, get it out! This will explain what I feel would be the best way for society to be run. Or at least part of it.

In the film, society is split into two separate yet compatible classes, Civilians and Citizens. The division is not based on existing social classes but on how much the individual contributes to society, (not financially). Military service guarantees Citizenship and it is this which pushes people to progress. Of course, some people are quite happy to be the Civilians but at least they contribute to society. The title of Citizenship is non hereditary so my children would still have to earn this right even if both me and my wife were Citizens. All are born equally, wealth and accident have no bond there.

In my world, even the Civilians will have some representation through syndicates and unions, but they must all work towards the common goal. Maybe the film is so good as it shows what the common goal actually is, it reminds us that we really need an enemy at times, in this case it is the Insects from Klandathu. Trust me, the film is better than it sounds.

By organic I mean one that is not set in stone, one that can evolve and change according to the diverse situations the state may find itself to be in. For example, one policy 10 years ago, may not be fashionable or commercially appliable now, or more information may come to light to state that that policy was not productive enough or something along those lines.

This is an old image of my niece, she is now 8, very bright and wants to become a vet as we have so many cats and dogs in all our houses. It is evident even now that she will become a worthy member of our society. But I would say that as I love her so much

[NatRev]

Yes she is pulling a 'funny face' at the camera x_p

[Jack]

Originally posted by NAZZ
In another thread a discussion regarding Socialism was started. It is possible that under a Racialist aspect we can incorporate aspects of Socialism in a Racialist World-View. Do you think this is a viable alternative? What elements of Socialism might we incorporate into Racialism?

Or are you in favour of the Capitalist system and believe that Racialism should be combined with Capitalism?

Racialism without any kind of socialism is impossible - that is because Racialism is by its very nature social and can't exist with the anarchaic economics of pure capitalism. You might not realise this but all Western countries are socialist. That is because they charge taxes. What this means is the government owns the property and they rent it out to you at a certain rate (your tax). If you don't pay your taxes you go to prison. Therefore the government owns the property and you're just someone who rents it out.

In my opinion something like Japanese Social Capitalism would work excellently in a white empire. If you're not sure what Social Capitalism is but you know what Corporatism is, think of Corporatism without a nation council of economics - big businesses look after workers, pay for their medical expenses, paid holidays etc. and the workers stay loyal to the company. If you work for a big corporations, for instance, Lockeed-Martin (military aircraft manufacturer based in the US), your son would be more likely to get a job there than someone who's family had no links to the corporation. It works excellently in Japan - the reason the economy is crashing is because of a lack of Lebensraum and therefore low birthrate.


BTW in the book, the aliens are a metaphor for hispanics and blacks

[Demigorgona]

Racial Socialism

[...]

We of the Church of the Creator believe, not in democracy, but in Racial Socialism, which is teamwork elevated to its highest perfection for the welfare of the whole race, led by its ablest leaders. It combines the best elements of both teamwork and competition. If "team spirit" and rooting for the "home team" are such noble attributes (and they are) then, certainly, having a whole race united in a team effort for their common good is the highest goal we can strive for.

That is what we mean by Racial Socialism as the ultimate in organized society for the White Race.

The Text Below is just a more detailed explanation

[...]

Since I have already defined socialism as organized society, it is obvious that to be organized at all the White Man must have a socialist government, which every government has been from time immemorial, in any case. What the White Man must further have is Racial Socialism, that is a government organized with the prime goal of promoting the best interests of the White Race and the White Race alone. It must be based on a racial foundation.

In essence, we, of the Church of the Creator, believe in a harmonized blending of our Church and our State. We believe our White Society is best served by that combination whereby a race's government and religion blend together in perfect harmony to promote the best interests of our White Race. We believe that "separation of church and state," that much vaunted holy cow in our constitution, is a deceptive fraud and a hoax. One might well ask — how can the same people that go to church and preach "resist not evil," and "turn the other cheek" support a government with huge tax contributions for national defense, and for an ever increasing police forces? It just doesn't make sense. Either you believe in defending yourself, or you don't. How can the same people that spend over a hundred billion dollars a year to presumably have the government defend them from their enemies then go to church and preach "love your enemies?" It is utterly ridiculous. It requires a split personality, a schizophrenic personality to ride on both sides of the fence.

Nor is there any great virtue in having the White people split up and fragmented into a thousand divergent religious camps, each in disagreement with each other, often culminating in religious wars and fratricide, as in Ireland today, and hundreds of religious wars in previous centuries.

We, of the Church of the Creator, are pursuing the goal of uniting the White Race on the obvious ground that is basic to all, namely — what is best for the White Race — as our cardinal dogma.

We are further bent on harmonizing the goals, objectives and the philosophy of our government with that of our religious thinking. To have these two major forces of our society pulling in opposite directions is sheer idiocy.

We believe in an organized social structure; we believe in a religion that has as its basic foundation the best interests of the White Race; we believe in the total White Race being united in such a religion, [edited out]; we believe that the government should harmonize with our religious creed and also be based on the same racial foundation. We furthermore believe that such government and such organized society functions best if it is further based on the Leadership Principle.

We call this Racial Socialism.

In order to understand the term socialism we must first of all brush away all the deceptive ideas about this word that have been flooded upon us by the Jews, the Communists and the Kosher Konservatives.

Socialism is not an evil concept as the Kosher Konservatives would have us believe. In essence it means organized society, striving to promote its own best interests collectively. Not only is there nothing wrong with this, but it is the only way civilized man has been able to survive and advance.

Outside of an organized socialist framework, we would not be able to own or protect our property, have highways, form a government, have schools, churches, defense organizations and a hundred other basic requirements. We are all dependent on each other's contributions towards the social structure. We are dependent on thousands of different industries for our existence — railroads, power companies, manufacturing plants, farming, etc. We need the accumulative help of millions of other people to live in today's highly specialized society. This is what has produced our great civilization, and let me emphasize that we, of the Church of the Creator are not anti-civilization. We are for civilization, the White Man's civilization.

The fact of the matter is that man is a social creature and like many other species in Nature, he owes his very existence, and in fact his tremendous progress, to the fact that he has been able to organize collectively, that he has been able to so effectively organize a workable society. Socialism is organized society. He has been doing this for so long that it has become deeply ingrained in his instinct by now and he does it intuitively. If it were not for this characteristic of man, he would still be back in the caveman stage of a million years ago where each individual would hump and scrounge for food on his own and live like the present aborigines of central Australia. Even these lowly people have some semblance of social organization.

It was as man began to form and organize a social structure, and organize, divide and specialize in the work and labor that had to be done, that he began his long climb upwards into the higher civilized levels. It was when one man became a shoemaker, another man a tailor, another a farmer, another a schoolteacher, etc., that man began to pull himself up by the bootstraps and become part of the tremendously productive "socialized" society that he is today. Without this division of labor and specialization he would be back at the level of the aborigines we mentioned earlier.

Not only that, but man has a definite spiritual need to belong to his tribe or his group or to identify with his own kind of people, which for the White Man is his own White Race. When the naïve conservatives tell you that Collectivism or Socialism is a terrible evil, and that Russia is in the grip of Socialism, they are lying through their teeth. Russia is not at all a Collectivist nation as such. Russia is a vast super slave state under the heel of a tyrannical Jewish dictatorship, the most cruel and hideous that the world has ever seen. A collectivist society is a natural society whereby the natural leaders of the people are just that — natural leaders, leading their people in an organized fashion for their own constructive improvement, not alien slave-masters who have subjugated another race in order to disintegrate and destroy them.

A true and outstanding example of natural leadership and a natural order was the wonderful society in Nazi Germany during the 30's under their natural leader, namely Adolf Hitler. There we had an example of a true German leading his own people, the Germans, and being admired and obeyed by millions of devoted followers. This was one of the finest examples of a people operating under the natural order that Nature has instinctively imbedded in their innermost being, and thereby achieving their full potential in productivity, creativity and racial unity. It is this natural order that brings out the best in a race, and promotes its well-being and eternal urge to advance towards a higher level of existence. It was a fine and wonderful renaissance of the White Race at its best. It is one of the great tragedies of history that the Jew in control of the overwhelming majority of the rest of the White world was able to smash this outburst of its own realization by the White Race.

In Hitler's Nazi Germany, the individual German owned more private property than he ever did under the democracy of the Weimar Republic. He had more hope, more individual freedom, more opportunities, a higher standard of living. He lived a much happier and a much more constructive life than he did under the Jewish "democracy" of the 1920's, or any other period.

We have already noted earlier in this book particularly in the first chapter, that many species in Nature are social creatures, that is, they live in an organized society. We have observed especially how the bees have a tightly knit and highly organized social structure within which they live. Every bee knows exactly what his function is, they do their job instinctively and their every act helps the colony as a whole. By building the colony and living within it, the bee is able to survive and perpetuate his species. The same honeybee that lives in this type of social structure is by Nature committed to that kind of existence. He cannot do otherwise. If he tried to live as an individual he would die and his species would perish with him.

At this stage of the White Man's evolution, he is in the same position as the organized social-living honeybee. The White Man's natural mode of living is as a member of the tribe, as a member of his larger social group. Were he to live outside of it and live as an individual, again, his society would break down and undoubtedly his race would perish. I repeat, the White Race, having reached the height of excellence that it has, is a highly complex socialized creature whose very inner soul is intertwined in his social structure, in community with the other members of his race. Like the honeybee, Nature has programmed into his very instinct a certain type of society that he fits into and that he must naturally have in order to survive.

Basically this developed from the earlier tribes and grew from there towards higher levels of society which perhaps reached its highest point and culmination in Hitler's National Socialist Germany. It is our purpose to advance further from this high point in the White Man's development.

This natural order has certain inherent characteristics. The first characteristic is racial loyalty — loyalty towards your own people. Nature has endowed each of us with this characteristic instinctively — the urge to keep our race pure. This means that we have a love for our own kind and we have a fierce hostility towards those that would intrude amongst us and endanger our race. Instinctively built into such a social structure, is a high respect for womanhood and the protection of its women. The natural instinct for keeping the race pure incites a fighting hatred in the male to prevent his women from being polluted by males of another race. Not too long ago, if a black nigger raped a White woman, justice was swift and final. He was usually hanged from the nearest tree.


[...]

Ben Klassen

Nature's Eternal Religion
Book II: The Salvation
Chapter Six: Racial Socialism


http://www.creator.org/holybooks/ner/ner-2-06.html


Well that is what I believe anyway

[Ederico]

I agree with you Sepp on this question. I favour some Socialist system in Economics though I am still weighing the alternatives like Corporatism and Social Capitalism which I would like greater information upon. Was NS Germany Corporatist?

@Demigorgona

Thanks for that extract, that is what I believe as well. Also how it ended was a sign of a better day, instead now we give rights to filthy criminals.

[Blue Eyed Devil]

There is nothing more absurd, useless or destructive than Karl Marx’s idea that we should, or even can, live “from each according to his ability and to each according to his need.” Unfortunately, that is what all too many people view as “socialism.”

A government can only promote a social view constructively when it promotes concepts and constructs that are positive for the people. It must include things like:

1) Homogeneity of race. It is only through homogeneity that true harmony within a country can exist. Diversity will always cause strife.

2) Strong families…including a) having mothers raising their own children, not some daycare center doing a terrible job of it for her, b) having a father that is there for his wife and children, because children need their real father too. His presence, or absence, will impact upon the entire rest of his children’s lives. A step father cannot entirely replace him.

3) Promoting the creation of self-sufficient members of society, that produce and enjoy their fruits of their own labor. This is where real wealth comes from. (It would include an educational system that gives excellent educations to those who are smart enough to handle them, and other appropriate training to each level of intelligence.)

4) Law and order, and other civilized behavior. When I was a child, neighbors were apt to punish others’ misbehaving children, and civilized behavior in children and adults was promoted throughout the entire community. Today, the government would prosecute many actions that made the community of my childhood safe and strong. Government should promote strong support of civilized behavior, not condemn or prosecute it.

5) Government “safety nets” should not be permanent. Unemployment compensation is for someone who is seriously looking for a job. Anyone else doesn’t deserve it. No able bodied male gets a “free ride.” One of our primary goals should be to have as few people as possible living off government supplied sources of income.

6) No White man should have to pay taxes to pay for a non-White child. His money should go to raising his own large White family!

[NatRev]

Blue,

you get my vote there! Good policies based on common sense.

This is where we need to make more progress, you wave a swastika in someones face and they turn away, you tell them what you're "really" into and then they realise that we're not so bad after all, in fact we are no more different than most of the average Joes in our towns and cities, the only thing is that some of us tend to think about certain things in more detail.

I remember reading a book about fascism and some guy said that when you put on a Swastika or a Klan symbol, you forcibly remove yourself from mainstream society. Personally I think we need to do the opposite, (within reason) incorporate our ideas with existing ideals and beliefs and that's when people start to realise we're not just into cross burning or screaming abuse.

My own conviction is for a racially segregated world, with certain specific areas designated for the healthy advancement and maintainment of the White race, these areas are North America, Europe, Australasia, Former Soviet Union and Southern Africa.

The rest of the world can run it's own 'scene' as long as they don't hurt me or mine, I'm OK with them.

Nazz,

I've just bought a book called Modern Concepts of Political Theory, not bad for £12 (UK), I'll let you know if anything goods comes out of it. Some good graphs and short, simple explanations, it makes me question the Left / Right divide too.

I'll post you the chart and info to show you what I mean.

Being mathematically minded, I was thinking of assessing the key elements of Socialism, Fascism, Nazism, Corporatism, Communism, Syndicalism etc.. etc.. and maybe expressing the similarities in either chart form of by some kind of Venn diagram.


J

[Jack]

Fascism and Nazism (i.e. German NatSoc) can't be placed on that chart if we're referring to economics - politics and economics can overlap but they aren't the same things. Either way, here's my go at doing the economics of it.