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Thread: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

  1. #21
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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    Here is a map compiled from AncestrybyDNA test results for various nations.

    Note that the Genral Indo-European includes the other IE groups. This is because specific (Nord/Med/Indic/Iranian) data is not available for some groups.

    These tests use autosomal DNA, so might be more representative than either mtDNA results or Y-Chromosome results.

    Check it out.
    Very dissatisfying map!

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Awar
    It means that some "Amerind" DNA actually originated in western Europe,
    and that some "sub-saharan" DNA actually originated in the Middle East,
    and then moved into Africa.
    Thanks Awar, your getting rep. points for this.






  3. #23
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    Post AW: Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob

    Again, there is a lot more data to be gathered here. And again, the ABD data is far from complete or perfect,
    I agree.

    but it's much better than conjecture based on phenotypes
    What makes you think that?

    There are a few grave problems with ABD, though.

    1. People take the data for granted and like to jump to conclusions (which is not really ABD's fault)They're suitable for further research, but lay people take their postulations for granted.. They constantly upgrade their programs and their findings then often differ dramatically from the previous versions.
    2. Y-chromosome and mtDNA studies have actually provided some solid figures and conclusive studies have been published.
    3 Their nomenclature does not correspond to anthropological designations.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

  4. #24
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    Post Re: AW: Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Triglav
    There are a few grave problems with ABD, though.

    1. People take the data for granted and like to jump to conclusions (which is not really ABD's fault)They're suitable for further research, but lay people take their postulations for granted.. They constantly upgrade their programs and their findings then often differ dramatically from the previous versions.
    2. Y-chromosome and mtDNA studies have actually provided some solid figures and conclusive studies have been published.
    3 Their nomenclature does not correspond to anthropological designations.
    1. Well, this is the nature of science: it is fallible, and has ingrained fallibility. What ABD sells is probability of estimates of individual's composition based on statistical affinity with mathematically defined population groups.

    2. The problem with Y and mtDNA studies is that selectively neutral gene loci are needed to best infer phylogeny and population history. Y Chromosome is subject to heavy cultural and possibly environmental selection (e.g. advantage of E types in long distance running) and also is limited in how far back in time it gives info on. MtDNA is a better, but does not give a complete picture.

    What these autosomal studies do is survey a larger number of loci (ABD2.5 surveys 175, and Euro1.0 surveys 370 or so). These loci collectively paint a picture of populations and how individuals relate to them. In other words, it's a much, much richer data set than nonrecombining sources of info like Y or mtDNA.

    3. Asian, Amerind, Indo-European, and Subsaharan African do agree with broad racial divisions defined by physical anthropology. Yet IMO genetics trumps phenotype, which is subject to observational error, bias, and is a quite indirect way of observing inheritance, which is in fact passed on through genetic material. Also, studies of primates have found that craniometric data can be a poor way of determining genetic phylogeny --- measure of "soft parts" is actually better - even tho old physical anthropology (which must rely on "stones and bones") considers soft parts secondary.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post AW: Re: AW: Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    1. Well, this is the nature of science: it is fallible, and has ingrained fallibility. What ABD sells is probability of estimates of individual's composition based on statistical affinity with mathematically defined population groups.

    2. The problem with Y and mtDNA studies is that selectively neutral gene loci are needed to best infer phylogeny and population history. Y Chromosome is subject to heavy cultural and possibly environmental selection (e.g. advantage of E types in long distance running) and also is limited in how far back in time it gives info on. MtDNA is a better, but does not give a complete picture.

    What these autosomal studies do is survey a larger number of loci (ABD2.5 surveys 175, and Euro1.0 surveys 370 or so). These loci collectively paint a picture of populations and how individuals relate to them. In other words, it's a much, much richer data set than nonrecombining sources of info like Y or mtDNA.
    Very true, my point is just that yDNA and mtDNA tests are presently more detailed and transparent, even though their capacity is limited.

    3. Asian, Amerind, Indo-European, and Subsaharan African do agree with broad racial divisions defined by physical anthropology.
    Not in the more detailed EURO 1.0.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

  6. #26
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    Post Re: AW: Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    3. Asian, Amerind, Indo-European, and Subsaharan African do agree with broad racial divisions defined by physical anthropology. Yet IMO genetics trumps phenotype, which is subject to observational error, bias, and is a quite indirect way of observing inheritance, which is in fact passed on through genetic material. Also, studies of primates have found that craniometric data can be a poor way of determining genetic phylogeny --- measure of "soft parts" is actually better - even tho old physical anthropology (which must rely on "stones and bones") considers soft parts secondary.
    Racial classifications from pictures are subject to observational error, however, when done properly by a physical anthropologist its precise.

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    The subsaharan paternal lineages in Sardinia (and now southern France) are from a Capoid origin, not specifically Negroid.
    I stand corrected.

    What would be an explanation for transport of Amerind into Iberia?
    It's hard to say.

    Iberians have significantly more maternal Amerindian/Siberian markers (haplogroups A,B,C, and possibly D) than other European groups, so it probably wasn't detected 'accidentally.'

    http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...46/002146.html

  8. #28
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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    What about Australia and New Zealand?
    "He who takes a stand is often wrong, but he who fails to take a stand is always wrong."
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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    I don't want to be around when Von Braun hears this.
    Oh really? It does not bother me. Your next post in this thread provides the answer why (I seriously doubt that people who are 3/4 indigenous French and 1/4 Algerian would be barred from this study; surely "French" and "Russian" and everything else was defined in a very modern, dumbed-down way).
    Last edited by Von Braun; Sunday, October 24th, 2004 at 04:45 AM.

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Von Braun
    Oh really? It does not bother me. Your next post in this thread provides the answer why (I seriously doubt that people who are 3/4 indigenous French and 1/4 Algerian would be barred from this study; surely "French" and "Russian" and everything else was defined in a very modern, dumbed-down way).
    If you want me to reply to your PM, please delete some messages so your mailbox has space.

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