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Thread: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

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    Post Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Here is a map compiled from AncestrybyDNA test results for various nations.

    Note that the Genral Indo-European includes the other IE groups. This is because specific (Nord/Med/Indic/Iranian) data is not available for some groups.

    These tests use autosomal DNA, so might be more representative than either mtDNA results or Y-Chromosome results.

    Check it out.
    Last edited by Scoob; Friday, October 22nd, 2004 at 10:43 PM.
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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Some thing I noticed:

    Note Amerind genes in Pacific Islanders. This could suggest that Amerinds from N or S America traveled west by boat, as Heyerdahl proposed.

    Amerind genes seem present throughout Europe with peak in the Iberian sample. This is strange, but might reflect a group that left Europe, perhaps in the wake of the last glaciation, and went East through Asia to the Americas. Some HLA studies have also suggested this.

    Racial data was not available on Turkish populations, but IE subracial data was: Nordic 22%; Med 54.6%; Mideastern (Iranian) 8.4%; Indic 14.1%. This reflects Turks only insofar as they are IndoEuropean, and might not reflect other non-Caucasian admixture.

    Note that Subsaharan African admixture is detected in Southern European populations.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    Note that Subsaharan African admixture is detected in Southern European populations.
    It's detected in Northern European populations, too, just at lower rates.

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stríbog
    It's detected in Northern European populations, too, just at lower rates.
    Right. All populations sampled show some amount of mixture with other groups.

    Note that I updated the map with some revisions in the original post.
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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    I didn't follow the discussion fully but I think there is doubt whether their data is very correct. You may look through the following threads:
    http://dodona.proboards35.com/index....num=1095289474
    (second link obsolete now, see below)
    Last edited by Gareth; Friday, October 22nd, 2004 at 11:26 PM.

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    All of these studies, including the most comprehensive study of global autosomal DNA variation out there, Rosenberg's, need much bigger sample sizes.

    But that been said: the people on Dodona are largely scientifically illiterate. They try to argue broad studies (such as this one) with narrow studies, or worse yet, anecdotal evidence.

    We need a lot more data on human genetic variation - but this will not happen overnight, and the data gathered in the meantime is quite interesting IMO. It is, in any case, better than information derived from cultural prejudices or pseudoscience.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scoob
    All of these studies, including the most comprehensive study of global autosomal DNA variation out there, Rosenberg's, need much bigger sample sizes.

    But that been said: the people on Dodona are largely scientifically illiterate. They try to argue broad studies (such as this one) with narrow studies, or worse yet, anecdotal evidence.
    Being "scientifically illiterate" is relative (I haven't seen a great bunch of academicians here lately). This girl Sirona brought up some of the same main points and more as you did. It seems I have to look for it myself in spite of I lack the time right know:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirona
    No need for meds. Anyway, here's a quote from the home page of ABD and it explains things a little:

    "High levels of admixture are highly characteristic of recent admixture events and various populations show systematic types of admixtures. The average African American shows 20% European admixture, and Carribean Hispanics tend to show significant European, Native American and African admixture. Non-African Hispanics tend to show relatively even European/Native American admixture with some showing more (even all) European, and others more (even all) Native American.
    Lower levels of admixture, particularly in Europeans, require a bit of detective work to interpret. This is because the test does not only report recent admixture events, but we believe, ancient events as well. Because our genetic history is very complex, and interactions between separated populations occurred many times before recorded history, individuals of certain ethnic groups tend to show specific admixture results. Examples include Russians, Scandanavians and Eastern Europeans showing low levels of East Asian admixture (even without a Chinese great grandparent), which possibly arose from widespread interaction between Europeans and Asians during and before the Hun invasions and subsequent ethnic amalgamation. Greeks, Italians, Middle Easterners and Jews reliably and systematically show low levels of Native American admixture (even without an American Indian great grandparent) for anthropological and genetic reasons that are not yet well understood. Thus, when interpreting a result of a low level of admixture (for example, 90% European/10% Native American), it is advisable to do so against a backdrop of what one already knows from other tests such as Y chromosome and mtDNA tests, and paper genealogy such as records and surname searches. For example, a person that gets a 15% NAM score, who has evidence for an Amerind grandmother, and no Mediterranean, Middle Eastern or Jewish ancestry can safely conclude that the test supports their prior knowledge and suggests American Indian or Hispanic heritage. Someone with no prior knowledge could not conclude Amerind or Hispanic heritage from this score, since it could also be from Greek, Italian ... etc. heritage. The same is true with other genetics tests, such as mtDNA results - for example, of the A,B,C,D and X mtDNA haplotypes, only the X haplotype is unique for NAM, and the rest (A, B, C, D) are all found in EAS as well, though lower frequencies."

    There is more under:
    http://www.ancestrybydna.com/simulation.asp and that page also contains a link to a log with people posting their results which is interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sirona
    Thanks vela, that was exactly what i was wondering about. As for haplotype X, that is what i meant that native american dna consisted of other dna as in the article it states the source could possibly be from an eurasian migration which would make sense as to why it would be in european and some amerindian populations and theories are that there was more than one ancient migration to the americas. I don't believe the results are "screwed up" as if you look at the ancestrybydna table thread they also have % native american dna (probably this haplotype X) in european populations. What is "screwed up" is that although it is present in some native americans it is probably caucasion in origin and therefore maybe they should separate it instead of saying europeans have NA dna. I suppose these tests originate in the usa so it is probably more convenient to lump all these strains into one group as it applies to a big ethnicity of the usa (native americans) instead of separating them and that's what i didn't understand before. Haplotype B is also used to distinguish NA DNA but is also present in asians and probably so are A, C, & D which are all native american markers. Also, Pacific Islanders have a large percentage of amerindian dna and maybe it should be the other way around as one migration could also have been pacific islanders. Anyway, check out the thread http://dodona.proboards35.com/index....num=1095289474 and maybe what i'm talking about will make sense.

    Yes, the mtDNA tests on mexicans probably make sense as i think it's well known that most interbreeding in latin america was between European males and Amerindian females. However, these tests were only done in two locals so these exact percentages should not be taken too seriously until they also do Paternal tests and a larger segment and locals and also keeping in mind that latin america is very polarized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes Pontikos
    Quote Originally Posted by gbloco
    let us assume there is a base level of amerind genes in european populations.
    Your assumption is wrong because Amerindians did not migrate into Europe. Hence there are no Amerindian genes in European populations, with the possible exception of the colonial powers of the Atlantic facade where such genes may have been introduced via resettlement from their colonies.
    Last edited by Gareth; Friday, October 22nd, 2004 at 11:33 PM.

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Thanks for posting the additional info.

    What irritates me about Dodona is that many individuals that posted on that thread did not first bother to understand the data before posting their uninformed opinions. Of course scientific literacy includes many things (in human population genetics, understanding of statistical methods, evolutionary biology, genetics, anthropology etc are relevant) - but there is a big gulf separating even the most rudimentary or hypothetical scientific statement and vulgar unashamed ignorance.

    At least this board contains many individuals that know physical anthropology, which can shed valuable light on genetic findings.
    "Whatever is done from love always occurs beyond good and evil." - F. Nietzsche

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    Note that Subsaharan African admixture is detected in Southern European populations.
    Southern Europeans have very low levels of Negroid mtDNA and (Sardinians aside) virtually no paternal Black ancestry detectable through the Y-Chromosome.

    The fact that Southern Europeans appear to have more autosomal SubSaharan African ancestry than what analysis of sex-based markers would otherwise suggest provides credence towards the hypothesis that North African males are the primary source of Negroid ancestry in contemporary Southern Europeans. Historically, such invaders would have presumably carried neolithic Y-Chromosomes as well as small but significant levels of SubSaharan African mtDNA.

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    Post Re: Map: Racial Composition by Nation

    What would be an explanation for transport of Amerind into Iberia?






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