Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Different Political & Economic Forms of Socialism/ German Socialism

  1. #1
    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,269
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post Different Political & Economic Forms of Socialism

    I think that a good knowledge of the Political and Economic facets of Socialism is something essential for anyone interested in Politics. The Economic Left-Wing is something to discover. Basically we should discuss the alternatives to Capitalism and give an overview of these Economic alteratives. There are many forms of non-Capitalistic Economic theories, so let us discuss them.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Post

    Looking at Fascist Economics, it has always struck me that a Fascist system needs an 'Empire', or a 'Reich'.
    In other words, small isolated Nations would be too weak to stand alone and would therefore need to be dependent on other nations. In such a condition they would not be able to work their Will.
    This is the economic objection to the subracial separatists.

    Fascism must create a large self-contained economic area that is able to feed itself and defend itself no matter what.

    Writing in the 1930s, Sir Oswald Mosley, Leader of the British Union of Fascists, put the case for Fascist economics. I quote some excerpts;

    "The essence of our economic creed is the realist facing of facts, and the adoption, even more in practice than in theory, of the quickest means of securing the essentials of national reconstruction.
    To that end we seek to reconcile every motive of individual exertion with the welfare of the nation as a whole..."
    [Mosley, Tomorrow We Live, chapter 4]

    We see that Fascism is always holistic in its outlook.
    At that time, Britain had an Empire which is, as I have said, essential for Fascism;

    "Within the Empire alone we possess practically every resource of raw material which industry can possibly require ...
    It is possible to build in our Empire alone, without the need of any assistance from the outside world of chaos, a far higher standard of life than we possess today, or that mankind has yet witnessed ....
    Empire industry must have a market for which to produce, and that is nothing else but the power of the people to consume ...
    Deliberately we build an Empire system that rests on the simple principle that the British people shall consume what the British people produce..."
    [Mosley ib.,]

    The "outside world of chaos" is the Internationalist system, which is still with us in the form of Globalist Capitalism.

    "High wages is the basic principle of our economic system, because high wages alone can give the people the power to consume the goods which they produce.
    The first factor which prevents high wages at present is the undercutting of British labour, even on the home market, by cheap foreign products ...
    To this situation we apply the simple principle that nothing shall be imported into Britain which can be produced within Great Britain ...
    It is useless to protect our standard of life from the foreign employer who pays low wages if we still expose it to the attack of the British employer who pays low wages. To meet this situation British Union constitutes the Corporate system ..."
    [ib.,]

    This is the famous Fascist Corporations, which, unlike the present Capitalist Corporations, work for the good of the Nation;

    "The Corporations will lay down the minimum wage rate over the sphere of industry which they cover, and infringement of these wage rates will be a criminal offence...
    But the function of the Corporations will be not merely static but dynamic. It will be their task progressively to adjust consumption to production power ..." " ... to raise wages and salaries over the whole sphere of industry, as science and industrial technique increase the power to produce ...
    ... an increase of purchasing power, accompanied by a planned advance in the production of goods, is not inflation but an increase in the production and consumption of real wealth..."
    [ib.,]

    Any attempt to create such a self-contained Corporate System will of course be visciously fought by International Finance and its Slave Armies. Therefore the establishment of a Fascist System will always mean war with 'The West' at present.
    Last edited by Moody; Wednesday, March 5th, 2003 at 08:25 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,269
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Thanks for that post on Fascist Economics Moody. I have some questions. Fascist Economics is generally termed Corporatism which from what I have read somewhere else is a combination of Capitalism and Syndicalism coupled with a Nationalistic Political outlook.

    As I have understood one of the goals of Fascism is Economic Autarky which if possible is essentially true Independence in the Economic sphere for a Nation. A Nation that is not in a position of Autarky is basically dependent on another Nation's production, in turn this is the current situation were Nations are Interdependent Economically.

    Yet is Corporatism a Socialistic Economic System or is it more like State Capitalism?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Post

    I would say it is the latter according to Mosley's version of the 1930's. He says;

    "The producer, whether by hand or brain or capital, will be the basis of the nation ...
    The incalculable powers of finance will be harnessed in the service of national production. They will not be fettered in their daily work; but they will be guided into the channels which serve the nation's ends".
    [Mosley, 'Tomorrow We Live']

    Indeed, it was this aspect of Fascist economics which Mosley retained in his post-World War 2 views;

    "Two valuable ideas remain from the corporate period.
    The first is the State strong enough to keep the ring for producer and consumer in face of the large combinations of industrial and financial power ...
    The second is the State regarded as an organic being which represents the past, the present and the future of civilisation, an entity which asks the individual to recognise what he owes to those who preceded him and to posterity".
    [Mosley, 'My Life']

    We are fortunate to have had such a thinker and activist as Mosley who had an unparalleled grasp of economics.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  5. #5
    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,269
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Thanks Moody, I tended to believe that after old conversations with Communists of varying type, but I do not really trust those people especially the Anti-National and Anti-Racial type of Communists. Anyways, this thread is for a discussion of Socialism, I hope some people reply.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,811
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Anarcho-Syndicalism - workers should own and run the means of production, all companies (run by workers) in an industry would join together in a syndicate, which is french for trade union. Various levels of government are workers councils made up of democratically elected people which represent their industry in a certain area. The state is abolished. Every man is armed.

    Corporatism - explained by Moody.

    Strasserite Socialism - Big business chains are abolished, taken over by the community, buildings are rented out to local private owned a run businesses. Similar to Lenin's NEP.

    Marxist Communism - Businesses are owned by the community, every man works according to his ability, people get products according to their needs, not according to how hard they work.

    Marxist Socialism - Businesses are owned by the workers, who form the State, an instrument used to suppress the bourgeoisie during and after the revolution. Local government is taken over by workers councils (soviet means workers council in Russian), which network together and form the national Government. This is what the Union of the Soviet Socialist Republics was supposed to mean.

    Stalinism - Effectively state capitalism. Everyone works, those who don't work starve. Farming is collectivised for more efficient taxation, taxes are directed by a central economic planning bureau for the construction of new factories and industries. Dependent on propaganda and brute force to keep it going.

    Market Socialism - see Marxist Socialism, except the State organises the distribution of products around the country where they are brought in a free market environment. Productive workers are given holidays, pay rises, shorter hours, and other benefits.

    I personally think capitalism by itself would be fine if we removed the Jews and concentrated economic power behind the State when it needed to aquire minerals and resources held by foreign governments.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 4th, 2007 @ 10:37 PM
    Gender
    Age
    37
    Posts
    1,269
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post

    Thanks Sepp for your brief overview of different forms of Socialism. I find Syndicalism, Corporatism, and Market Socialism most interesting. Perhaps we should discuss those in greater detail. Also Strasserite Socialism sounds like something to get further information upon, I guess this was the Socialism espoused by the Strasser brothers.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 10th, 2012 @ 09:18 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Albion
    Subrace
    Paleo-Atlantid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Investigator of Souls
    Politics
    Pan-Germanic Nationalist
    Religion
    Runosophy
    Posts
    1,904
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    9
    Thanked in
    9 Posts

    Post

    I agree with Sepp's last point, but think a form of welfare assistance is necessary, particular for the elderly; the welfare will ONLY be available to the indigenous White population of course.

    One objection to Strasserism is that there are some concerns which need to be run on a 'big' level WITHIN the nation.
    Last edited by Moody; Friday, March 7th, 2003 at 05:56 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Last Online
    Friday, March 25th, 2016 @ 07:28 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celt Australian
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordic
    Country
    Australia Australia
    State
    Victoria Victoria
    Location
    Terra Australis
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Guerilla Philosopher
    Politics
    Aristotelian Nationalist
    Religion
    Roman Catholic
    Posts
    1,811
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post

    Originally posted by Moody Lawless
    I agree with Sepp's last point, but think a form of welfare assistance is necessary, particular for the elderly; the welfare will ONLY be available to the indigenous White population of course.
    Quite obviously. Supposing all banks were nationalised, the Government might establish an account for everyone, which would be funded though a voluntary income tax and used as pension upon retirement. I should explain what I mean by voluntary income tax - a person's voluntary income tax only goes to fund their own pension, not anyone elses. The government could coordinate education to make sure everyone has the opportunity (those who don't want to work shouldn't be forced to - but no one should be forced to feed them) to get a good education and be the best they can be. Perhaps a ministry for employment should be established where businesses can tell the government what sort of people they want, and the unemployed give the government details about their skills and stuff, and the government can put them in contact with their potential employer. I don't know what people here think, but its incredibly expensive to go to university, and some very smart kids don't have the richest parents in the world, and so its difficult - if they try getting a loan, they're pinned down during and after university for the next 10-15 years trying to pay it off.

    [/b]One objection to Strasserism is that there are some concerns which need to be run on a 'big' level WITHIN the nation. [/B]
    Obviously - this is my prime problem with Syndicalism, that it is incapable of coordinating large scale industrial expansion, and this works for Marxist Socialism as well, unless you're referring to an NEP (essentially Strasserite) socialism or Stalinist socialism, which on purely ethical grounds I oppose being introduced into a white empire, unless we're at total war with another empire or state. I disagree with Market Socialism because it doesn't provide economic freedom, and expansion must nessecarily be directed by a central economic planning committee, which can make big mistakes if someone messes up a few digits on a scrap of paper, while private individuals have a personal interest in making things work.

    But then a beefed up version of Japanese Social Capitalism could do it just as well without half the pain, and yet Social Capitalism (similar to Corporatism) still provides the economic freedom for expansion. The differences between Social Capitalism and Corporatism is that Social Capitalism is not Government directed, but big businesses must still pay for the workers benefits, like health cover, insurance and pension.
    All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream at night, in the dusky recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams, with open eyes, to make it possible.

  10. #10
    Senior Member NatRev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 @ 08:02 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Anglo Saxon
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Midlands
    Gender
    Age
    48
    Family
    Having a longtime compani
    Politics
    red-brown-green
    Religion
    Pantheist
    Posts
    634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Class Structure

    Do you think the concept of the Proletariat / Bourgeous system still exists?

    In England, I think there may have originally been a structure of working class / middle class / upper class in my parents generation but now I think this system has fractured slightly.

    I myself am from working class origins, so of course are my sisters, each of us have achieved a level of education where we are working in particular fields, we now have jobs that people would traditionally associate with the middle classes. Does this mean I am no longer working class?

    Is class a form of social collectivism or is it a form of social imprisonment?

    I think that the gap between working class and middle class is getting smaller, I have heard stories of plumbers and builders earning as much as doctors and lawyers, does this mean that wealth is the only thing separating the two classes?

    Proletarait originally meant the workers with NO capital, now most workers have capital, are they no longer proletariats?

    What about the sub-working 'welfare state' class? I'm not talking about the elderly, they've all done 'their bit' and are a totally different group all together. I mean the Wayne and Waynetta Slobb layabouts (this may confuse non UK residents but I think you get what I mean).

    I still haven't got round to reading that book by Strasser, I'll have to spend some time on it as it looks very interesting.


    J
    "Only through a re-integration of Humanity into the whole of Nature can our People be made stronger."

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 66
    Last Post: Sunday, September 12th, 2010, 12:20 AM
  2. Why Nazism Was Socialism and Why Socialism Is Totalitarian
    By Dagna in forum Economics, Business, & Finance
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 07:33 PM
  3. Chauvinism, National-Socialism or Racial-Socialism?
    By Lusitano in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 06:02 PM
  4. Racialism & Socialism
    By Ederico in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Saturday, April 3rd, 2004, 12:47 AM
  5. Communism & Socialism: The Economic System - Pros & Cons
    By Ederico in forum Political Theory
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Tuesday, March 30th, 2004, 07:06 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •