View Poll Results: Will there be a Russian invasion of Ukraine?

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  • Yes, and the war will grow into a regional conflict

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  • Yes, and the war will grow into a world war

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Thread: The Russo-Ukrainian War 2022

  1. #1
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    The Russo-Ukrainian War 2022

    German navy chief resigns over Ukraine comments



    The head of the German navy has resigned over controversial comments he made over Ukraine.

    Kay-Achim Schönbach said the idea that Russia wanted to invade Ukraine was nonsense. He added that all President Vladimir Putin wanted was respect.

    A number of countries have supplied weapons to Ukraine, including the US and UK. But Germany has refused Ukraine's request for ammunition.

    Russia has denied claims that it is planning to invade Ukraine.

    But President Putin has issued demands to the West which he says concern Russia's security, including that Ukraine be stopped from joining the military defence alliance Nato.

    He also wants Nato to abandon military exercises and stop sending weapons to eastern Europe, seeing this as a direct threat to Russia's security.

    Meanwhile, the UK has accused Mr Putin of plotting to install a pro-Moscow figure to lead Ukraine's government.

    Mr Schönbach said on Saturday that he had resigned from his role "with immediate effect" in order to "avert further damage".

    He made the controversial comments while speaking at a think-tank discussion in India on Friday and the video was later published to social media.



    In the video, Mr Schönbach said Mr Putin needed to be treated as an equal by the West.

    "It is easy to give him the respect he really demands - and also probably deserves," he said.

    He added that the Crimean peninsula, which Russia annexed in 2014, "is gone and will never come back".

    Ukraine's foreign ministry described Mr Schönbach's comments as "categorically unacceptable".

    The head of Nato has warned there is a real risk of a fresh conflict in Europe after an estimated 100,000 Russian troops amassed on the border.

    Some 90 tonnes of US "lethal aid" arrived in Ukraine on Saturday, and the UK announced earlier this week that it was sending defence weapons and extra troops for training. Several other Nato members are sending military equipment or deploying forces.

    Germany has refused to send weapons, instead offering to send Ukraine a field hospital. It has reportedly blocked attempts by Estonia to send Ukraine German-origin weapons, according to the Wall Street Journal.

    Defence Minister Christine Lambrecht told Welt am Sonntag newspaper that Berlin had already delivered respirators to Ukraine and severely injured Ukrainian soldiers are being treated in German military hospitals.

    Ukraine has denounced Germany's response, accusing Berlin of undermining Western unity by refusing to transfer weapons to Ukraine or allowing some of its allies to do so.

    Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said in a series of posts on Twitter that Germany's stance encouraged Mr Putin to launch an attack.

    In an interview with Sky News on Sunday, Ukraine's ambassador to the UK, Vadym Prystaiko, called on Germany to play a "significant role".

    "If they're not ready to provide us with weapons, defensive weapons, OK, they might do something else which will help us," he said.

    Mr Prystaiko said he would "absolutely" like to see Germany block Russia's Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.

    The pipeline runs from Russia to Germany under the Baltic Sea, and, if granted regulatory clearance, would increase Moscow's gas exports to Europe. The Ukrainian presidency has described it as a "dangerous geopolitical weapon".

    Approval for the project is currently being decided by Germany's energy regulator.

    BBC.com

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    Think it's just an excuse to allow the guys to go for a month long boat ride, and stand around in the bush with their guns all day, doing whatever else it is they do in that bush, under the command of their transgender LGBQ leaders.

    If there is some action (militarily speaking), it will be preapproved by all leaderships, probably just to spook the markets so Wall St can capitalize on some put options. Either that, or the Russkies snap, and launch a first strike on our parasitic, brainwashing, blood sucking centers of control: Israel, New York, Washington, etc, lol. Hopefully, if Britain, France, Canada, etc, and whatever sect of the US armed forces is wise, they'll join forces with the Russkies to annihilate whatever force remains loyal to our (((overlords))) lol.
    We need a reservation system for our people and our own ethnic-nationalist faith, where we'll have sermons about our people and nations, real history, science, philosophy, etc., in addition to our older religions. Throw in some open bar nights, comedy club hours, music and dance, etc., and it'll be a cracker barrel of good times lol.

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    Ukraine conflict: Russian forces invade after Putin TV declaration



    BBC.com

    Russian forces have launched a military assault on neighbouring Ukraine, crossing its borders and bombing military targets near big cities.

    In a pre-dawn TV statement Russian President Vladimir Putin said Russia did not plan to occupy Ukraine and demanded that its military lay down their arms.

    Moments later, attacks were reported on Ukrainian military targets.

    Ukraine said that "Putin has launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine".

    Russia's military breached the border in a number of places, in the north, south and east, including from Belarus, an long-time Russian ally.

    At least seven people are known to have been killed, including civilians, but a Ukrainian presidential adviser said that more than 40 soldiers had died and dozens more were wounded.

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced that martial law was now being imposed across all of Ukraine, and then severed all diplomatic relations with Russia.

    "No panic. We're strong. We're ready for anything. We'll defeat everyone, because we are Ukraine," he said in a video statement. Ahead of Russia's attack he had made a last-ditch attempt to avert a conflict, warning that Russia could start "a major war in Europe" and urging Russian citizens to oppose it.

    Warning sirens blared across the capital, which has a population of almost three million.

    Traffic queued to leave the city during the night and crowds sought shelter in Kyiv's underground metro stations. Several neighbouring countries have begun preparations to take in a large number of refugees.

    "We don't understand what we should do now," one woman called Svetlana told the BBC. "We're now going to a place where we can be safe and we hope we can leave safely. We have family in Mariupol and now they're very nervous."

    One man was killed when Russian forces shelled the town of Chuhuiv, outside the major city of Kharkiv.

    What Russia has targeted

    Russia first launched strikes on Ukraine's military infrastructure and border guard units, according to Mr Zelensky. Then Ukrainian forces said Russian military vehicles had crossed the border near Kharkiv in the north, Luhansk in the east, Russian-annexed Crimea in the south and from Belarus too. Belarus's authoritarian leader Alexander Lukashenko said his country's military were not involved but could be if needed.

    Russian tanks were later seen on the outskirts of Kharkiv, a city of 1.4 million people. Russian forces also reportedly landed by sea at Ukraine's major port cities of Odesa on the Black Sea and Mariupol on the internal Sea of Azov.



    Ukraine's army said Kyiv's Boryspil international airport was among a number of airfields that had been bombed, along with military headquarters and warehouses in the big cities of Kyiv, Dnipro, Kharkiv and Mariupol.

    Mr Zelensky said Russia had positioned almost 200,000 troops and thousands of combat vehicles on Ukraine's borders.

    'Unprovoked and unjustified'

    The Russian leader launched the "special military operation" by repeating a number of unfounded claims he has made this week, including alleging that Ukraine's democratically elected government had been responsible for eight years of genocide.

    He said the goal was demilitarisation and "denazification" of Ukraine. Hours earlier Ukraine's president had asked how a people who lost eight million of its citizens fighting Nazis support Nazism. "How could I be a Nazi?" said Mr Zelensky, who is himself Jewish.

    There was an immediate response to the invasion from neighbouring countries.

    In the Baltic republic of Estonia which borders Russia, Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said a number of Nato allies that shared borders with Russia had agreed to launch consultations under Nato's Article 4. Under the defensive alliance's treaty, Nato can be brought together if any member fears their independence or territory is under threat.

    "Russia's widespread aggression is a threat to the entire world and to all Nato countries," she said.

    As cars queued on Ukraine's border with Moldova, the country's pro-EU president, Maia Sandu said she was declaring a state of emergency and was prepared to give help to tens of thousands of Ukrainians. Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda also said he was signing a state of emergency to be approved by parliament.

    "President Putin, in the name of humanity, bring your troops back to Russia," said UN Secretary-General António Guterres.

    Ukraine's Western allies had repeatedly warned that Russia was poised to invade, despite repeated denials from Moscow. The US, EU, UK and Japan imposed sanctions against leading Russians, Russian banks and MPs who backed the move.

    US President Joe Biden said Washington and its allies would respond to the invasion in a united and decisive way to "an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces" on Ukraine. "The world will hold Russia accountable," he added.

    European Commission Chief Ursula von der Leyen said the EU stood with Ukraine while foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said "these are among the darkest hours for Europe since World War Two".

    The EU's 27 leaders were due to hold an emergency summit meeting later on Thursday.

    UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said he was "appalled by the horrific events in Ukraine" and that President Putin "has chosen a path of bloodshed and destruction by launching this unprovoked attack".

    "Together with allies, we will respond to this barbaric act of aggression," said Czech Foreign Minister Jan Lipavsky.
    Why Russia invaded

    Earlier this week Russia's president announced he was recognising the independence of two self-proclaimed people's republics of Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine.

    The breakaway regions were seized by Russian-backed rebels after Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. Mr Putin launched that attack after mass street protests in Ukraine that ousted pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych.

    Since then more than 14,000 people have died in the east in a conflict between the rebels and Ukrainian forces. A shaky ceasefire had held but there has been a surge in violations in recent days.

    Mr Putin said the military operation's objective was to defend the people in the breakaway areas.

    Kyiv and its Western allies have repeatedly rejected as absurd Mr Putin's claims that Ukraine was being run by neo-Nazis, instead pointing out that Ukraine was now a nation with growing democratic institutions, unlike an authoritarian Russia.

    Fears of a Russian attack have been rising for months.

    Mr Putin has repeatedly accused the US and its allies of ignoring Russia's demands to prevent Ukraine from joining the Nato military alliance and offer Moscow security guarantees.

  5. #4

    Expansion and demise?



    Vladimir Putin Threatens ‘Consequences Greater than Any of You Have Faced in History’ if Outsiders Interfere in Ukraine



    Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the invasion of Ukraine on Thursday morning then warned the world of “consequences greater than any of you have faced in history” if any nation seeks to interfere.


    Putin’s threats come on the heels of a Russian military operation in Ukraine’s capital city Kyiv that reportedly resulted in explosions. However, Putin claims the military operation would not result in an occupation of Ukraine. “We decided to launch a special military action aimed at demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine,” Putin said.
    To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any of you have faced in history. All relevant decisions have been taken. I hope you hear me,” Putin
    said on a morning television broadcast.


    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky pledged Ukraine would defend itself if under attack from Russia. “But if we come under attack, if we face an attempt to take away our country, our freedom, our lives and lives of our children, we will defend ourselves. When you attack us, you will see our faces, not our backs,” Zelenskyy said during an overnight address where he spoke in Russian.


    Zelensky added Putin’s aggression “could mark the start of a big war on the European continent.” “Any provocation, any spark could trigger a blaze that will destroy everything,” he added.





    How many times are people going to blindly follow the MSM and American/British/NATO narratives?

    Has nobody learnt yet that they lie, distort, deceive or omit any kind of nuance?

    It was agreed in 1991 that NATO would not expand past East Germany, it would not enter its military bases or agendas into Eastern Europe and those surrounding Russia.

    I believe it was also understood that the EU should not try and bring Ukraine into the EU and encroach into these areas to the detriment of stability there or as part of an underhanded way to establish NATO presence, military bases, or nuclear weapon placement around Russia.

    Yet, these are the things that have apparently been worked towards, and, to no surprise, Russia is aiming to stand up to it, as it is a provocation after provocation.

    Some areas are apparently 'separatist' and want to go their own way from Ukraine and the way it is heading. Russia claims to be helping them achieve that, as well as defending and upholding the agreements that had been made.

    Now, wouldn't put it past Putin to help make those places independent, as a strategy to harm Ukraine and with an eye on eventually absorbing them back into Russia decades down the line....but the western media is making it out that he is a swivel-eyed lunatic without any cause to take the actions he is, whilst fluffing for Biden and the notoriously problematic western foreign war / foreign policy agendas that have disgraced the west for decades (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Serbia, Libya etc).

    The narrative in this country and on the TV is not remotely giving any context to the situation as far as I can see, or how it is the actions of NATO and the EU etc that are likely equally to blame for the escalations. It's rarely as simple as they make it out to be as they bang the drums of war against Russia.



    Vladimir Putin Threatens ‘Consequences Greater than Any of You Have Faced in History’ if Outsiders Interfere in Ukraine

    24 II 2022.



    Separatist leaders ask for Russia's help against Ukraine 'aggression'



    . . . parts of Ukraine except for the two eastern separatist regions where a deadly insurgency has killed more than 14,000 people in the past two years.



    Shocking, for our younger people especially, to be subjected to a constant barrage of lies from the Western Media about geopolitical events in E. Europe and elsewhere.



    Do you honestly believe the US or UK gives one fcuk about Ukraine?



    Why don’t NATO just ask him/Russia to join the club?


    If a war started in Europe because of this and your country was involved how many of the keyboard warriors would drop their phones and pick up a gun and go to the frontlines to fight Putin? Very few I bet. Starting a war is easy, peace is hard. The whole craves for a JFK type leader to calm the situation and Chicon Joe is not one.



    Could have been avoided if Ukraine had given the areas autonomy as per the Minsk Agreement which was agreed with Russia seven years ago - Minsk II was signed on 12 February 2015. Minsk II consists of a package of measures, including a ceasefire, withdrawal of heavy weapons from the front line, release of prisoners of war, constitutional reform in Ukraine granting self-government to certain areas of Donbas and restoring control of the state border to the Ukrainian government. The Normandy Format parties agreed that the Minsk II remains the basis for any future resolution to the conflict.



    The loss of Donetsk Luhansk from Ukrainian territory is irreversible. They are majority Russian speaking areas and even if handed back to Ukraine the political instability that would result would be unsustainable for Ukraine and would result in civil war again. Minsk might have worked to keep the territorial integrity of Ukraine intact but that was a lost opportunity.



    EU to hold snap summit, wring their hands and talk the subject to death before heading home on their executive jets to tell all and sundry how banning Russian caviar will bring those pesky commies to their knees.



    Fears of invasion mount as separatist leaders ask for Russia's help against Ukraine 'aggression'

    24 II 2022.

    Albert Einstein said "World War IV would be fought with sticks and stones."

  6. #5
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    Now, I don't want to doubt that we are possibly on the cusp of World War III. I was doubting if Russia would ever launch such an extensive invasion of Ukraine. I see a realistic scenario of Eastern parts of Ukraine coming under full occupation by Russian military.

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    Why is Ukraine the West's Fault?

    Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer


    This is a very good lecture about the situation in Ukraine, why this whole war is a result of western meddling.
    [02-10, 17:07] Chlodovech: cats may have a reason for meowing too

    [02-10, 17:08] renownedwolf: same reason as the missus then.. give me stuff/affection..though she doesnt need me to let her out in the garden for a poo..

    [02-10, 17:09] Chlodovech: that's more than I can say of Thoreidar

    ---

    [21-03, 14:55] Coillearnach: lol, I hate those qs that are like “do you side with your country even if it’s wrong”, bitch I am the equivalent of a Palestinian at this point, what country would that be

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    See a lot of this word "unprovoked" which really just shows that people haven't been paying attention to what has been going on in Ukraine for the past 10 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripredacus View Post
    See a lot of this word "unprovoked" which really just shows that people haven't been paying attention to what has been going on in Ukraine for the past 10 years.
    Those who say "unprovoked" are either the ones who provoked it, or ignorant, childlike people who just parrot this narrative of the deep state. The video in my post above explains the whole situation quite clearly. Please share it with any friends or family members who have active brain cells.
    [02-10, 17:07] Chlodovech: cats may have a reason for meowing too

    [02-10, 17:08] renownedwolf: same reason as the missus then.. give me stuff/affection..though she doesnt need me to let her out in the garden for a poo..

    [02-10, 17:09] Chlodovech: that's more than I can say of Thoreidar

    ---

    [21-03, 14:55] Coillearnach: lol, I hate those qs that are like “do you side with your country even if it’s wrong”, bitch I am the equivalent of a Palestinian at this point, what country would that be

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    Light pink: Russian territorial gains on the first day of the hostilities; the Crimea, part of the Luhansk/Donetsk areas and Transnistria were already in Russia hands of course.

    The first day of a war as well as its opening phase are always filled with confusion and uncertainty, especially one of this size. It's not entirely clear yet what the Russians are trying to achieve and how.

    The Ukrainians are offering resistance despite the Russians gaining air superiority after a few hours of war and perhaps more so than the Russians assumed they would (and the Americans believe they beefed up the Ukrainian army enough in the last few years to make the war a bloody affair for Russia - the Ukrainian defense forces certainly didn't fall apart on first contact), but not all of Russia's cards are on the table yet - and a large part of their strike force is still positioned behind the Russian border. I posit that the supposed setbacks of the Russian in the East and North East of Ukraine aren't setbacks - the blunted attacks on Charkov, Chernihiv and Sumy, which led to considerable casualties on the Russian side (including captured Russian soldiers, destroyed APCs ,IFVs and tanks) - are merely faints. They're meant to tie up as many Ukrainian forces in the East of Ukraine, the main offensives will come from the South and North, from Crimea and Belarus. Eventually both the southern and northern fronts will meet each other somewhere half way and hence trap the vast majority of the Ukrainian land army, which is now fighting in the East, to the East of the Dnepr - provided the Ukrainian army can't escape from this double envelopment. If it does escape it will likely leave plenty of equipment behind and the battle for Eastern Ukraine will be over anyway. I believe this to be the plan all the more so due to a lack of Russian action in the South East, where the rebel republics are located. The Russians want the Ukrainians to concentrate their forces as much in Eastern Ukraine as possible for a reason.

    If true, it would be the first and fanciest operational maneuvering since 1991, when general Schwarzkopf tried to trap the Iraqi Republican Guard in Kuwait and Southern Iraq, the sort of war of movement historical German generals from the late 19th and first half of the 20th centuries would salivate over and which hasn't occured anymore since the end of the Cold War.

    The southern offensive is making good progress, but what can't have been part of the Russian plan is the difficulties the Russian military has faced in the North so far. They didn't reach their objectives for the day there, the territorial gains aren't substantial and the air assault on Antonov Hostomel airport near Kiev, which the Russians wanted to capture and then use the airstrip to fly in more troops, was repelled.The Ukrainians are now musing about blowing up the entire place now they still can, as they've realized its importance in the Russian plans.

    I'm curious as to what happened to the Russian survivors of the failed airborne (helicopter) assault on Antonov Hostomel, they controlled the airfield once or twice but eventually a counterattack of the National Guard drove them away from the site. They must be hiding in the woods and/or fighting for their lives right now if they weren't evacuated, not unlike the German paratroopers after their rather disastrous air assault on Dutch airfields in the province of Holland and Den Hague in May 1940.

    I also expect the battle for Kiev to commence within 48 hours, if it doesn't it's because the Ukrainians derailed (or delayed) the two pronged northern attacks - eventually the Russians will reach Kiev however, rather sooner than later. If the Ukrainians decide to turn their capital into a fortress and arm the civilian population, as they are, it could become a bloody struggle indeed if the Russians decide to enter the city rather than encircle it. We know from history that Russians don't care about destroying large popularion centers to achieve their goals, but Kiev must be the one place on Earth that may give them pause. At any rate: the longer the war lasts, the worse things will get for the Russians - Russia needs to win fast before the international and domestic situation forces them to the negotiation table, which would give them many lemons.

    And let's not forget what this war is about - ignore the silly media outrage, the crocodile tears and the phony humanitarianism. Any responsible Russian leader should act, should do something. If Ukraine becomes pro-Western, the political pressure on Russia's south will be enormous, the Russians may lose the Northern Caucasus, Kuban and Kotluban areas, basically all the land from Volgograd (Stalingrad) to Georgia - even if Ukraine never becomes a launching pad for a hypothetical NATO offensive against Russia in the future. In peace time too Ukraine would become a staging area for subversive action inside Russia, specifically southern Russia - keep in mind Judeo-Ukraine, like the U.S., is best buddies with islamist terrorists/separatists as well. This is an existential war for the Russian state and nation. At least since George Bush junior the U.S. has dreamt of balkanising Russia, regretting they didn't move in for the kill during the Nineties when Russia was weak and dismantling Russia would've been easier. The U.S. establishment doesn't genuinely want a liberal, democratic Russia - they want to break up Russia in 20 pieces or even more, feeling, fearing, it is too large and will always become a problem down the road.

    And just look at a map: in the case of war between NATO and the U.S., a NATO Ukraine would mean the distance between Kazakhstan and NATO is only 400 km as the crow flies - all NATO would have to do is reach the Kazakh border and the Russians would lose access to all Southern regions of European Russia.

    Russia winning the war against Ukraine in a grand way isn't a drama to U.S. based neocons either, the gains outweigh the losses. It still means U.S. allies will become energy suppliers of the E.U./germany instead of Russia, which brings the E.U. and Germany more firmly in the evil empire's sphere of influence due to being depended on let's say Qatar - and that's the other aspect of this war - hence Biden was basically encouraging Putin to start a war and hoping he would. Likewise, the (((Western))) aggression against Syria is ultimately also about determining the loyalty of Germany and the E.U. by making Europeans depended on pipelines running from Qatar to Europe.
    "All passion is lost now. The world is mediocre, limp, without force. And madness and despair are a force. And force is a crime in the eyes of the fools, the weak and the silly who rule the roost." - Joseph Conrad

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    Probably overly simplistic of me, but I fail to see any legitimate defensive purpose "my" country has in interfering in the Ukraine/Russia conflict. "NATO" is about 30 years past its expiration date. I'm no particular fan of the Putin government, either.
    "Almost every name belongs to well-known families of English stock....these soldiers were of ancient American lineage"- Prof. N.S. Shaler on the 1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade, Confederate States Army

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