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Thread: Classification help: Nordics versus northern Upper Paleolithics/Cro-Magnons

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall View Post
    To comment on Cox, he's been called East Nordic. Peppard has been called Anglo-Saxon. There's just something about all these men together, but perhaps Edward Fox the furthest and brother James a step closer than him to my grandfather, so they're both not as close as the other three. https://the-races-of-the-world.fandom.com/wiki/Borreby All right, that site seems to have solved my curiosity. Pilou Asbæk is very similar to me; rather than just looking at some features from many individuals, here's only one person who fits, along with Carlsen. That blonde next to Adele is probably the closest of any phenotype example I've seen anywhere online to my wife and mother-in-law. My mother-in-law is almost as tall as I am and she definitely doesn't look Irish, but English and maybe German (from her own father's side). Yeah, I've stopped looking now. I'm Borreby like I originally thought, but had a harder time figuring my wife until seeing the two, both male and female, in the same group, matching so well. When having lost weight, my bones stick out more and seem Phalian, but we're both endomorphic and so, I think whatever is Nordic generally tends to be 'buried'.
    Some Bruenns in the UK look very Irish but a lot don't. Few of the Irish Bruenns have that typical appearance to them. If you take, for example, Alan Shearer, he looks a bit pseudo Borreby but there are far more types in Scotland and Ireland than in Scandinavia like him.

    Adele is a horrible example of Borreby. She is a gracialized Bruenn like the killer cop in this story. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...apply-n1028981

    The blonde woman (Dutch?) looks a bit like Kiki Bertens but I would not use her as example of Borreby. Emma Bunton is a better example, as well as one of the women in your original post who looks like her. Another example is William Hague, Rick Astley (more in the Phalian direction than Hague but with clearly similar features, like an "unreduced Hague") and Pia Kjaersgaard. Then you have an extreme and obvious case like Lars Lokke Rasmussen, who is very reduced and round faced like Alpines.

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    Shearer looks more Nordic, just balding. I did a search for Kiki and they don't really look alike at all. You know, once Adele lost weight and let her hair drop down, she didn't look so round in general, not just her body but her face, which really started looking longer and I've never seen anybody call Bruenns 'horse-faced'. Although not ugly like that might imply, Adele looks like she could be Brünnhilde in Wagner's opera.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...different.html

    Pia and Emma both look like my father's first cousin and her father is Swedish, mother is English.

    If a Borreby is supposed to have a completely round head and no real length at the back of the skull, then how different are they from Bruenn, except colouration? If Bruenns don't look Irish, maybe Borrebys don't look Danish? If Danes aren't really Borreby, maybe Irish aren't really Bruenn either? Hopefully, you see the overall implications of what you have written. How do you have an article of faith that practically most UPs in England, etc are Bruenn?

    You do know that there's been quite a bit of migration since those graves were dug up to source phenotypes or at least since the Fall of Rome, spreading Germanics everywhere, just as the Bronze Age moved everybody before? If people in one country have similarities to those in neighbouring countries, that is to be expected and regardless of ethnolinguistic heritage differences. Finns look like Swedes and Swedes look like Finns, or do you disagree?

    Do Icelanders look Norwegian? To me, they look Irish, but they are supposed to be uber-Nordic. In fact, England has had a lot more Germanic contributions than Iceland has, as the latter primarily sourced to Norway and Norwegian settlements throughout the Celtic fringe. England, however, despite the Brexit rhetoric, was always tied to the Continent racially and even geopolitically (Jersey and Guernsey and Gibraltar not the only ones historically) despite there not being the same situation for the Gaels.

    That means all around the North Sea, there are overlaps, just as there are common traits throughout the Baltic. We already always look at the influence of an Atlantic type in the same way.

    https://forums.skadi.net/threads/108...ion-and-Legacy

    What is the reality of a stable phenotype?
    full stop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodskarl Dubhgall View Post
    Shearer looks more Nordic, just balding. I did a search for Kiki and they don't really look alike at all. You know, once Adele lost weight and let her hair drop down, she didn't look so round in general, not just her body but her face, which really started looking longer and I've never seen anybody call Bruenns 'horse-faced'. Although not ugly like that might imply, Adele looks like she could be Brünnhilde in Wagner's opera.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...different.html

    Pia and Emma both look like my father's first cousin and her father is Swedish, mother is English.

    If a Borreby is supposed to have a completely round head and no real length at the back of the skull, then how different are they from Bruenn, except colouration? If Bruenns don't look Irish, maybe Borrebys don't look Danish? If Danes aren't really Borreby, maybe Irish aren't really Bruenn either? Hopefully, you see the overall implications of what you have written. How do you have an article of faith that practically most UPs in England, etc are Bruenn?

    You do know that there's been quite a bit of migration since those graves were dug up to source phenotypes or at least since the Fall of Rome, spreading Germanics everywhere, just as the Bronze Age moved everybody before? If people in one country have similarities to those in neighbouring countries, that is to be expected and regardless of ethnolinguistic heritage differences. Finns look like Swedes and Swedes look like Finns, or do you disagree?

    Do Icelanders look Norwegian? To me, they look Irish, but they are supposed to be uber-Nordic. In fact, England has had a lot more Germanic contributions than Iceland has, as the latter primarily sourced to Norway and Norwegian settlements throughout the Celtic fringe. England, however, despite the Brexit rhetoric, was always tied to the Continent racially and even geopolitically (Jersey and Guernsey and Gibraltar not the only ones historically) despite there not being the same situation for the Gaels.

    That means all around the North Sea, there are overlaps, just as there are common traits throughout the Baltic. We already always look at the influence of an Atlantic type in the same way.

    https://forums.skadi.net/threads/108...ion-and-Legacy

    https://forums.skadi.net/threads/109...-As-The-Zodiac!

    What is the reality of a stable phenotype?
    Here is a picture of a young Shearer with hair. What Nordic is he supposed to resemble, exactly?

    https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/i...069854e6b5.jpg
    Name:  Alan-Shearer-Southampton-1988-5ab8f27a97efbb4f7aea32069854e6b5.jpg
Views: 55
Size:  104.3 KB

    He looks ueber UP. I could understand if somebody said Borreby, but he looks like George Galloway more than like any Dane or Dutch.
    If a Borreby is supposed to have a completely round head and no real length at the back of the skull, then how different are they from Bruenn, except colouration?
    I mostly look at the facial features for telling types apart. Bruenns are supposedly long headed, by the way.

    If Bruenns don't look Irish, maybe Borrebys don't look Danish?
    Most Bruenns don't have an exclusively Irish look to them is my point. If you expect them all to be McGuiness clones and only call such exemplars for Bruenn then you will be missing a lot of the spectrum of the type.

    If Danes aren't really Borreby, maybe Irish aren't really Bruenn either?
    Some are, some are Keltic Nordic. Some are reduced Bruenns (which would be a more direct counterpart to Borreby as Bruenn is more akin to Phalian). It gets complicated because, as you pointed out, there have been migrations and we are dealing with populations of millions of people.

    How do you have an article of faith that practically most UPs in England, etc are Bruenn?
    Regarding UPs in the UK- I just gave you plenty of examples of Borreby there. But Bruenn is more the norm, as they are indigenous, while Phalians/Borreby are indigenous to the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany. It's common sense really, and more importantly Irish, Scottish and English Bruenns resemble each other.

    Borreby, Bruenn, Phalian are related types anyway, so it wouldn't be contradictory for typology to struggle telling them apart, quite the contrary.

    I'm not a huge expert on the history of Iceland, but my understanding is that the island was largely unpopulated before the Vikings arrived. The UK already had a population of millions. So the difference is basically that much fewer Icelanders are comparatively descended from pre-Germanics.

    Roman Britain alone had a population of around 3 million.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_...n#Demographics

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  5. #14
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    https://forums.skadi.net/threads/216...thic-Survivors

    Shearer is an athlete, but his features look a little fine and gangly. Galloway is somewhat Atlantid, no? You think Continental Germanics can't be Bruenn, when the Reihengräber or Friterpian Anglo-Saxon type of Friesland is supposed to be a cross between Bruenn and Nordic, even before the Volkerwanderung?

    I'm not sure about the hybrid vigour that's being asserted, but it explores importation to Britain from old Angeln. It is the same for Tronder, supposedly being about the same combination of Bruenn and Nordic, just from Norway and through the Vikings. How about 'Celts' as Borreby?

    I was told Lowland Scot Kirsten Imrie is Borreby, so it makes sense knowing she's not from a Highland clan and has a Norman surname. She being a Scot just HAS TO BE Bruenn? This automatic application of type based on broad geographical regionalisation is quite a stretch, don't you think?

    Why would the brother or son population in another region somehow be racially different from the previous region? Does a dog born in a stable become a horse? Englanders are no more one of the 'Celtic peoples' than Icelanders, who were only able to fill up their island by the Irish slave trade in Dublin and the Gaelic human trafficking network throughout the Isles of the North Atlantic--genetic testing proves this for Icelandic folks, but not so much for English.

    You too often reserve this collectivisation for English, even though we (English, Dutch and German) are all Germanic and English especially have both the West German base and North German complement--something the other West Germans don't, at least not as much, apart from Friesland and Schleswig-Holstein. Angles have always been Germanic, with a lot of females and offspring in tow on board ships since Welshman Vortigern invited us foolishly to the nadir of his own nation. The Gaelic Scottish population also shrunk by advance of the English Lowlanders from Northumbria, so now the dwellers of Scotland are Gaelic in name only, after many wars, Lowland Clearances and Highland Clearances.

    This was a pincer move because of the Norwegian settlers in the Isles and Galloway, squeezing the Scots out of the country they themselves also took from the Welsh before a single Germanic tribesman showed up, except as legionnaires for Rome. You see how the historiography blame game goes anti-Germanic, but you do your part to reinforce it, against the reality of conditions. In 1484 or so, King Richard III called Henry Tudor's mercenaries 'a nomber of beggarly britons and faynte harted frenchmen', which just shows there's no unity of origin or purpose between us--no community to speak of existed in the ethnogenesis of either English folk or them.

    England already existed between the bounds of Denmark and Germany, the folks being Ingvaeones before finding another home, for how could they cease being themselves, when they were the dominators throughout? This is the equivalent of saying that all or most Anglo-Americans are Amerindians, rather than attribute population and domination of geography to factors within the Anglo-Saxon race, no different than claiming Swiss Germans aren't Alemans but Romansh. Maybe you are just overcompensating an inferiority complex by writing off English as offshoots of the Celts, when the base English population is the same as Friesland and Schleswig-Holstein along with Jutland, even before the Viking migrations and the Normans didn't add anything that wasn't already there before, unless the Franks didn't actually do anything more than business in Kent (it's been claimed Rhineland material culture in English graves is Frankish, rather than conveyed by Frisian traders as I think).

    That was way long before the farce called 'Britain' was eventually chosen as a neutral geographic name for English and Scottish to cohabit without killing one another anymore, in the context of and after colonisation around the world already began. That didn't stop us fighting either (this had been going on and off since Hengist and Horsa), but the Plantations largely succeeded in redirecting all the violence between the two nations onto Gaelic-speaking Ireland instead, which is why an 'Irish' line of mine is actually English from New Model Army veterans and their families occupying the Sligo coast of Connaught. This side of my family fortunately survived persecution by the Gaels and their mansion wasn't firebombed before they went back to England during the Famine.



    According to the IRA, those family of mine would be 'worse than Hitler' and genocidal maniacs perpetuating and perpetrating English Lebensraum, but according to you, there's no real difference anyway. Maybe then you would be so kind as to broadly embrace Dutch looking French and Germans looking Italian. I at least see the reverse is true from the Volkerwanderung, but you don't and won't attest to those examples, or accept that they are as likely--you never have tried looking at it that way or even understanding why others would consider it, nor the effects of Anglo-Scandinavian colonisation of the British Isles transforming the Celtic landscape.



    It was us 'racist Anglos' who caricatured the 'Celtic little people' to begin with, which meant that they didn't fit our understanding of those having the same racial background and stood out like sore thumbs amongst us. Leave it to the Germans to stand balls to the wall with the Irish against the aggression of 'degenerate shopkeepers'--all you lot feel free to slur to cover your own failings. If Angles and Scots can agree to cohabit to keep the peace, put aside our differences and deal with Ireland and/or Germany, then it shows a bit of transcendence on the parts of both sides to these geopolitical stances, regardless of metaethnicity--I just don't understand why you wouldn't prefer to side with the English, with Irish and Scots on the other against us...it's as much your instigation and fault for these problems.

    You just invite worse comparison for the Dutch and Germans in your blanket labeling, because Istvaeones and Irminones were legit integrated with French and Italians in Roman Belgium and Roman Germany, i.e. within the Roman Empire (and not having lived entirely outside it as the Anglo-Saxons did before taking over after the Roman withdrawal from Britain), long before also part of the Holy Roman Empire--along with Bohemians. Would you accept it if told you're no different from the French and Italians in Switzerland, or maybe Germans are just the same as Poles and Czechoslovaks that hate them for 'atrocities'? At least with Germanics in the Isles, we've always been able to leave a permanent mark on the social landscape and the Celts are usually forced to submit to our leverage over them in both the Old World and New World, unlike those Germanics on the Continent, who still, to this day, struggle to stay afloat amongst the masses of non-Germanics in the European Union, having lost kingdom after kingdom to the Latin resurgence at the machinations of the Papacy, since Romance languages are used to brainwash and reconstitute anti-Germanic culture in lands that were once Germanic conquests.

    We Anglos are far more successful in many ways, but this invites jealousy, so your hypocritical attitude and of those like you over the years on Skadi is the only reason I ever bothered making those comparisons that you dispute about yourself in reply to these provocations you initiate. If you see a speck in another's eye, how is it you cannot see the plank in your own eye? You bring this on yourself, so don't play with fire if you don't want to be burnt.
    full stop

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    To add another series of Phalian women, as this is an absolutely central type in all Germanic countries.



    All are celebrities, but I have found an ASMR artist from Northern Germany who is similar to the women above, for those interested.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ12Dx3ITcI


    Shearer is an athlete, but his features look a little fine and gangly. Galloway is somewhat Atlantid, no? You think Continental Germanics can't be Bruenn, when the Reihengräber or Friterpian Anglo-Saxon type of Friesland is supposed to be a cross between Bruenn and Nordic, even before the Volkerwanderung?
    Adele should never play Brunnhild as she does not look Germanic. Alyssa Sutherland could, though, and I would enjoy seeing Maddison Inglis or Victoria Smurfit play it. But Adele would be ridiculous and by that I mean it could only happen because audiences have a low IQ, as she really does not fit the role. It would make as much sense as a central American with aboriginal features playing Colombus.

    Coon sometimes called Phalians Bruenn and sometimes Borreby, as he did not use a special name for that type. A lot of his continental examples of Bruenn are actually Phalians or part Phalian. What Bruenns there are on continental Germanic countries do not outnumber Meds, Dinarics and other less characteristic types.

    Neither Shearer nor Galloway look substantially non-UP. If you look at pictures of these men,

    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/prof...-shearer-6.jpg

    https://d8s293fyljwh4.cloudfront.net...jpg?1472025072

    It's not hard to find similarities, such as the big head, skin type, proportions, etc.

    Also concerning the rest of your tirade: I recommend you spend more time researching anthropology and examining your beloved English folk, comparing them to the nationalities who live closest to them, and less time worrying about SwiSS conspiracies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegenschlag View Post
    Adele should never play Brunnhild as she does not look Germanic. Alyssa Sutherland could, though, and I would enjoy seeing Victoria Smurfit play it. But Adele would be ridiculous and by that I mean it could only happen because audiences have a low IQ, as she really does not fit the role. It would make as much sense as a central American with aboriginal features playing Colombus.

    Coon sometimes called Phalians Bruenn ans sometimes Borreby, as he did not use a special name for that type. A lot of his continental examples of Bruenn are actually Phalians or part Phalian. What Bruenns there are on continental Germanic countries do not outnumber Meds, Dinarics and other less characteristic types.

    Neither Shearer nor Galloway look substantially non-UP. If you look at pictures of these men,

    https://www.thefamouspeople.com/prof...-shearer-6.jpg

    https://d8s293fyljwh4.cloudfront.net...jpg?1472025072

    It's not hard to find similarities, such as the big head, skin type, proportions, etc.

    Also concerning the rest of your tirade: I recommend you spend more tome researching anthropology and examining your beloved English folk, comparing them to the nationalities who live closest to them, and less time worrying about SwiSS conspiracies.
    Oh right, Swiss aren't a cross section of neighbouring nations, that must be English. You're the loudest hypocrite Skadi ever had the misfortune of hosting. It still won't bring you a woman either.
    full stop

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    To add an update on the examples above.

    After looking at them more closely, Claudia Schiffer and Dutzen Kroes are pred Phalian.

    Alyssa Sutherland and the girl in the ASMR video are Nordic + Phalian.

    Undecided about Frida Aasen.

    It gets tricky because mixes sometimes look similar even when the proportion of the elements involved are substantially different.

    Doutzen Kroes is also similar to Brigitte Nielsen and Hasselhoff.

    https://ibb.co/2YD2hp3


    Swiss aren't a cross section of neighbouring nations, that must be English. You're the loudest hypocrite Skadi ever had the misfortune of hosting. It still won't bring you a woman either.
    Swiss Germans (the real Swiss) are no more different from the Germans in Baden Wurtemberg than they are from those in the Palatinate and Bavaria.

    If anything, we are more Nordic, as there are accounts of Swedish influence in Switzerland, and both Lundman and Coon considered the Swiss Germans more Nordic than Germans as a whole. We are possibly more Germanic too, as Switzerland did not lose two world wars with all the foreign influences that represented.

    Swiss Italians and French do not speak the same language and should not be considered part of the same nation.

    England is in a far away island, geographically detached from the Germanic world, much closer to the strongly Bruenn populations of Scotland and Ireland. In a sense, the Germanic input there is comparable to that in Northern Italy and parts of Eastern Europe.

    According to the IRA, those family of mine would be 'worse than Hitler' and genocidal maniacs perpetuating and perpetrating English Lebensraum, but according to you, there's no real difference anyway.
    Not just that but most European wars were completely pointless and unnecessary. Most of them were based on short sighted tribalism/nationalism or even worse religious differences, when we should have worked together as a race to achieve dominance on a global scale.

    There was one war which was important, though. One war which would determine the future of the white race as we know it. That was the Second World War.

    And in that conflict not only did England not support Germanics or Europe, but also warred against them far more than any other power. Even the Soviets were more friendly towards Germany and even wanted to become a part of the Axis.

    This is at the same time as the hopeless Anglophile and Keltic Nordic Hitler made countless peace offers to England. England could return nothing but animosity and deaf ears. And all for what? Hitler attacked no part of the British Empire nor did he have any ambitions there. Not only did England not win anything from that war, not even Poland's freedom (the original pretext), the UK lost their Empire not long after WW2.

    WW2 was the true test of England's Germanicness and worthiness as a nation, and in it, they failed in the worst possible manner. That they, together with the USA, have led the Western world down a path of degeneracy and destruction ever since only makes their behavior more contemptible. These countries not only have the blood of millions of Germans on their hands, but also of all the victims of mass immigration in Sweden and other countries.

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    Your fantasies don't hold water. The more you repeat your mantras, it just reinforces your blinkered mirage. Arguing from ignorance what you want things to be is the opposite of accepting the reality how they are. Learn to acknowledge the difference! If Swiss Germans are cohabiting with Swiss Romansh, Swiss Italians and Swiss French, how is this no more mélange than England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland sharing a Crown? Are Canadians somehow Australian? You're either a hypocrite, a troll, or both. If you want to be correct, address your insinuations towards Catalonians with respect to their distinction from Aragon, Spain or Iberia inclusive of Portugal, because then it wouldn't be inflammatory to any sensible person. Only Catalonians think they are their own people, when everyone else is aware of this being lunacy. The same cannot be said for English nationalists; we use Britishness to bind the Gaels so that they do not backstab us when dealing with Europe, but Britishness technically trivialises Celtic identity, because actual British people were conquered by England and France before moving on to do the same with Gaels (and Navarre, by the latter) further out on the frontier. Britain and Switzerland are comparable in Germanic blood, just as Saxons and Alemans are. Don't mix up with different levels of Germanic, like British with Alemannic or Swiss with Saxon, because British and Swiss are both less Germanic than Saxon and Aleman. If you don't understand, you really are thicker than a brick, to borrow from Jethro Tull.

    Alyssa Sutherland doesn't look Brünn, but Adele does? Alyssa is Trönder and Adele is Anglo-Saxon; if they are Nordids admixed with Brünn, this is from Norway and Friesland. You don't have the privilege to redefine phenotypes for everyone else--your pet fixations remain your own and carry no weight with anyone. Keep sticking your nose up at McCulloch and the SNPA (some members I associated with respectfully long before you poohed them), but their efforts have been widely received and influential, whilst you're a nobody no-one cares about. You are definitely no Agrippa, but keep telling yourself what you want to hear and the rest of us will just laugh when you think we should take your parodies seriously.

    After Saxons, I'm most related to Franks both genealogically and genetically, not to Gaels or most anyone else but Danes. My phenotype isn't Brünn either and nobody in my family looks Gaelic Irish; Keltic is another story that I cannot dispute and Atlantid may be another, even Alpinid could be there. I look very much more like Henry Cavill than Brendan Gleeson--my photo was on Skadi until 2017 and staff here have seen it; I'm no leprechaun at all. You could say I look Flemish or Norman in addition to English, with a lot of known Rhenish ancestry, especially Palatine (this cuisine, even as basic as limburger and braunschweiger with horseradish and kraut, is considered fine dining under my roof). I've pointed out time and again how low my autosomal proximity is to Scots and this is despite being from a North English family, with a lot more blood from London, Dutch Mennonite and French Huguenot, like many White South Africans. You really don't know what is coming out of your arse and repeat lies without facts--facts being inconvenient to repeating ad nauseaum your brainless narrative and you lacking the ability and/or willpower to understand what doesn't fit your imaginary preconceptions.

    English folk should have the right to any prerogative without seeking the leave of another nation; this has been the case since time immemorial and accession to the EU was uncharacteristic of my race; we can be both related to the French or Germans and hate them too, for having greater leverage in Europe or being forced to play by their rules and why the chuff not? You obviously don't know about our King Henry VIII Tudor's dealings with François I de Valois and Karl V von Habsburg; we are our own men and we've got our own castles--you look to yours and not pitifully, pathetically whinge about us being men as you have no stomach to do so for your own skin, especially not even for some quim or to raise up heirs to pass on a worthy legacy. Once we beat Ol' Boney and exchanged Hanover for India, we proved that we were not ever again going to be beholden to any other European power, whatsoever, even though we desired Scots and Irish to bend to our own will and ultimatums. Alemans have no choice in this respect and to your infamy, a cesspool of Swiss corruption worse than any claims made against Canary Wharf due most probably to your Italians, but thanks for army knives, fondue and St Bernards.
    full stop

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