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Thread: Tinder and the Dawn of the Dating Apocalypse

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    Senior Member Verandi's Avatar
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    Tinder and the Dawn of the Dating Apocalypse



    As romance gets swiped from the screen, some twentysomethings arent liking what they see.

    Its a balmy night in Manhattans financial district, and at a sports bar called Stout, everyone is Tindering. The tables are filled with young women and men whove been chasing money and deals on Wall Street all day, and now theyre out looking for hookups. Everyone is drinking, peering into their screens and swiping on the faces of strangers they may have sex with later that evening. Or not. Ew, this guy has Dad bod, a young woman says of a potential match, swiping left. Her friends smirk, not looking up.

    Tinder sucks, they say. But they dont stop swiping.

    At a booth in the back, three handsome twentysomething guys in button-downs are having beers. They are Dan, Alex, and Marty, budding investment bankers at the same financial firm, which recruited Alex and Marty straight from an Ivy League campus. (Names and some identifying details have been changed for this story.) When asked if theyve been arranging dates on the apps theyve been swiping at, all say not one date, but two or three: You cant be stuck in one lane Theres always something better. If you had a reservation somewhere and then a table at Per Se opened up, youd want to go there, Alex offers.

    Guys view everything as a competition, he elaborates with his deep, reassuring voice. Whos slept with the best, hottest girls? With these dating apps, he says, youre always sort of prowling. You could talk to two or three girls at a bar and pick the best one, or you can swipe a couple hundred people a daythe sample size is so much larger. Its setting up two or three Tinder dates a week and, chances are, sleeping with all of them, so you could rack up 100 girls youve slept with in a year.

    He says that he himself has slept with five different women he met on TinderTinderellas, the guys call themin the last eight days. Dan and Marty, also Alexs roommates in a shiny high-rise apartment building near Wall Street, can vouch for that. In fact, they can remember whom Alex has slept with in the past week more readily than he can.

    Brittany, Morgan, Amber, Marty says, counting on his fingers. Oh, and the RussianUkrainian?

    Ukrainian, Alex confirms. She works at He says the name of a high-end art auction house. Asked what these women are like, he shrugs. I could offer a rsum, but thats about it Works at J. Crew; senior at Parsons; junior at Pace; works in finance

    We dont know what the girls are like, Marty says.

    And they dont know us, says Alex.

    And yet a lack of an intimate knowledge of his potential sex partners never presents him with an obstacle to physical intimacy, Alex says. Alex, his friends agree, is a Tinder King, a young man of such deft text gameThats the ability to actually convince someone to do something over text, Marty explainsthat he is able to entice young women into his bed on the basis of a few text exchanges, while letting them know up front he is not interested in having a relationship.

    How does he do it?, Marty asks, blinking. This guys got a talent.

    But Marty, who prefers Hinge to Tinder (Hinge is my thing), is no slouch at racking up girls. He says hes slept with 30 to 40 women in the last year: I sort of play that I could be a boyfriend kind of guy, in order to win them over, but then they start wanting me to care more and I just dont.

    Dude, thats not cool, Alex chides in his warm way. I always make a point of disclosing Im not looking for anything serious. I just wanna hang out, be friends, see what happens If I were ever in a court of law I could point to the transcript. But something about the whole scenario seems to bother him, despite all his mild-mannered bravado. I think to an extent it is, like, sinister, he says, cause I know that the average girl will think that theres a chance that she can turn the tables. If I were like, Hey, I just wanna bone, very few people would want to meet up with you

    Do you think this culture is misogynistic? he asks lightly.

    Sex Has Become So Easy

    I call it the Dating Apocalypse, says a woman in New York, aged 29.

    As the polar ice caps melt and the earth churns through the Sixth Extinction, another unprecedented phenomenon is taking place, in the realm of sex. Hookup culture, which has been percolating for about a hundred years, has collided with dating apps, which have acted like a wayward meteor on the now dinosaur-like rituals of courtship. We are in uncharted territory when it comes to Tinder et al., says Justin Garcia, a research scientist at Indiana Universitys Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender, and Reproduction. There have been two major transitions in heterosexual mating in the last four million years, he says. The first was around 10,000 to 15,000 years ago, in the agricultural revolution, when we became less migratory and more settled, leading to the establishment of marriage as a cultural contract. And the second major transition is with the rise of the Internet.

    People used to meet their partners through proximity, through family and friends, but now Internet meeting is surpassing every other form. Its changing so much about the way we act both romantically and sexually, Garcia says. It is unprecedented from an evolutionary standpoint. As soon as people could go online they were using it as a way to find partners to date and have sex with. In the 90s it was Craigslist and AOL chat rooms, then Match.com and Kiss.com. But the lengthy, heartfelt e-mails exchanged by the main characters in Youve Got Mail (1998) seem positively Victorian in comparison to the messages sent on the average dating app today. Ill get a text that says, Wanna fuck? says Jennifer, 22, a senior at Indiana University Southeast, in New Albany. Theyll tell you, Come over and sit on my face, says her friend, Ashley, 19.

    Mobile dating went mainstream about five years ago; by 2012 it was overtaking online dating. In February, one study reported there were nearly 100 million peopleperhaps 50 million on Tinder aloneusing their phones as a sort of all-day, every-day, handheld singles club, where they might find a sex partner as easily as theyd find a cheap flight to Florida. Its like ordering Seamless, says Dan, the investment banker, referring to the online food-delivery service. But youre ordering a person.

    The comparison to online shopping seems an apt one. Dating apps are the free-market economy come to sex. The innovation of Tinder was the swipethe flick of a finger on a picture, no more elaborate profiles necessary and no more fear of rejection; users only know whether theyve been approved, never when theyve been discarded. OkCupid soon adopted the function. Hinge, which allows for more information about a matchs circle of friends through Facebook, and Happn, which enables G.P.S. tracking to show whether matches have recently crossed paths, use it too. Its telling that swiping has been jocularly incorporated into advertisements for various products, a nod to the notion that, online, the act of choosing consumer brands and sex partners has become interchangeable.

    Its instant gratification, says Jason, 26, a Brooklyn photographer, and a validation of your own attractiveness by just, like, swiping your thumb on an app. You see some pretty girl and you swipe and its, like, oh, she thinks youre attractive too, so its really addicting, and you just find yourself mindlessly doing it. Sex has become so easy, says John, 26, a marketing executive in New York. I can go on my phone right now and no doubt I can find someone I can have sex with this evening, probably before midnight.

    And is this good for women? Since the emergence of flappers and moderns in the 1920s, the debate about what is lost and gained for women in casual sex has been raging, and is raging stillparticularly among women. Some, like Atlantic writer Hanna Rosin, see hookup culture as a boon: The hookup culture is bound up with everything thats fabulous about being a young woman in 2012the freedom, the confidence. But others lament the way the extreme casualness of sex in the age of Tinder leaves many women feeling de-valued. Its rare for a woman of our generation to meet a man who treats her like a priority instead of an option, wrote Erica Gordon on the Gen Y Web site Elite Daily, in 2014.

    It is the very abundance of options provided by online dating which may be making men less inclined to treat any particular woman as a priority, according to David Buss, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin who specializes in the evolution of human sexuality. Apps like Tinder and OkCupid give people the impression that there are thousands or millions of potential mates out there, Buss says. One dimension of this is the impact it has on mens psychology. When there is a surplus of women, or a perceived surplus of women, the whole mating system tends to shift towards short-term dating. Marriages become unstable. Divorces increase. Men dont have to commit, so they pursue a short-term mating strategy. Men are making that shift, and women are forced to go along with it in order to mate at all.

    Now hold on there a minute. Short-term mating strategies seem to work for plenty of women too; some dont want to be in committed relationships, either, particularly those in their 20s who are focusing on their education and launching careers. Alex the Wall Streeter is overly optimistic when he assumes that every woman he sleeps with would turn the tables and date him seriously if she could. And yet, his assumption may be a sign of the more sinister thing he references, the big fish swimming underneath the ice: For young women the problem in navigating sexuality and relationships is still gender inequality, says Elizabeth Armstrong, a professor of sociology at the University of Michigan who specializes in sexuality and gender. Young women complain that young men still have the power to decide when something is going to be serious and when something is notthey can go, Shes girlfriend material, shes hookup material. There is still a pervasive double standard. We need to puzzle out why women have made more strides in the public arena than in the private arena.


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    Nothing changed dating and the gender dynamic as much as dating apps/websites in recent times - let's say the last 20 years or so - or even since third wave feminism arrived on the scene 50 years back. It's a massive game changer. Dating in the nineties itself was still largely like dating in the seventies or eighties for most men and women. Somewhat older people who have only dated before the spread of the internet only seem to be vaguely aware of this, if at all. I can recall the time when there was still a stigma attached to online dating, it was something very hush-hush, a source of embarrassment. Few would've admitted to it as internet dating was still associated with losers, cheaters and perverts. And yet today most new relations start on the internet. Something changed between 2005 and 2015. In 20 years we went from stigma to normalisation.

    Digital dating on an industrial scale amplified certain negative natural tendencies of men and women and which already went unchecked in the deregulated dating market for decades, namely: (quality) men pursuing short term relationships (because they can) and women chasing after quality men and monkey branching - upgrading from one man to another when possible (also because they can). The reason for this is that compared to pre-internet times we all seem to have infinitely more options. No-one has to be restricted to their own direct, real life social bubble anymore when it comes to finding a partner, provided one is connected to the internet.

    Ironically, this abundance is partially an illusion, and options have become fewer for everyone except high status men (no wonder then that men with power support feminism).

    Over a century ago you would've "dated" locally, mostly in your own socio-economic class, women too. Women's choice was between marrying some guy or 'dying' from hunger and thirst. Faced with that prospect, women's expectations were unsurprisingly limited. A man simply doesn't have to be 6ft plus a bunch of arbitrary things in such circumstances, moreover, the average woman had no realistic chance of ever being wifed up by someone from the top 20% of desirable men anyway.

    Third wave feminism made it theoretically possible for women to not marry & yet live or to only pursue the very best of men, many did. But the internet weaponized this new gender dynamic in a big way. It gave every woman direct access to all the best men through dating websites, the internet is oddly egalitarian that way. The other side of the coin is: "quality men", regardless of them being desirable because of being Chads or bad boys or simply accomplished/high status or maybe just rich, confronted with this abundance of women, don't settle for anypne in particular - and when or if they finally do, it will still be with a high status woman.

    The average woman still doesn't have that chance despite the new gender dynamic creating an illusion of possibility, instead she ends up being used for sex by high status men on dating sites/apps. But the illusion is so strong, and the practical need to marry a man so weak, that women don't view average men as good enough anymore. Even being above average is no guarantee - a guy may have a very nice income, drive a fancy car, possess tons of provider traits, do all the clich romantic stuff (simpmaxxing ), her mother may be completely onboard with it, and yet be described as boring and undesirable. His sin? Just having his life in order. If you're that guy you're probably wondering why you are deemed to be inadequate. Or what's wrong with women these days. But you're primarly a victim of a deregulated dating market: modern men and women still act on the same instincts of over a century ago when pursuing the best mating strategies, but their desires are no longer canalized as they once were under patriarchy, which ensured that the maximum amount of families were created.

    This problem lies at the heart of the dating apocalypse and our own demographic collapse. Patriarchy probably won't return and if it does it can never be as effective anymore - not unless there's a rather comprehensive destruction of civilization. It's utter science fiction, but what is far likelier to happen is that people in the future, but not in our lifetime, will see the novelty of designer partners and designer babies. The "perfect", tailormade partners won't be human but the babies will be. At some point that will become the new normal. That's going to be "the solution" to this crisis, eventually, as dating grinds to a halt and no-one marries anymore. (Below) average people will start relationships with "robots", but eventually everyone will start doing it.

    It may seem dystopian for someone living in 2020 thinking this through, yet at the same time it would solve a lot of problems - while creating others. Equally disturbingly, it may very well be a masonic long term goal anyway: replacing humans with robots. After all, once robots are sufficiently advanced to take on the role of a partner of a human being, why not simply replace humans with something more cost-effective while at the same time violating the sanctity of God's creation? For a Christian this evolution is deeply disturbing. Noah's Flood was the result of a first Satanic attempt to wipe out mankind, it may happen again - there's nothing new under the sun.
    [28-08, 00:40] Huginn ok Muninn: if only sigurd were here

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    I just skimmed this thread because it's the most recent thread. I don't Tinder. I am 50 years old, never married, and haven't had sex since I was 29. My last boyfriend was in 2005 (I was 35) and we couldn't have sex because he had a medical problem. We didn't break up because of that. We broke up because he spent New Year's Eve with his friends and didn't invite me.

    I did join eharmony for a year but I didn't find anyone close by and I wasn't willing to move.

    I think I'll remain celibate and unmarried for the rest of my life.

    I have a crush on my chiropractor but that is going nowhere. I'm okay with it being platonic.

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    I'm 21 and I don't use dating-apps either. I prefer going to a festival or some public place where everyone gathers and then just talk to girls and guys. That way it's more personal, and you can actually get to know someone who shares your interests, and even make some friends in the process.

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