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Thread: Crimean Goths

  1. #11
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    AW: Re: Crimean Goths

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu
    I wonder were there mass emigrations from the Cimmerian Peleponesos when the Turkics took over? That way, the descendants of the last Goths would now be found in Greece proper [most likely after a few centuries stop over in Asia Minor before the population exchanges of the 1920s].
    I know a few Greeks stayed behind near the Sea of Azov [one such lady was my doctor in Moscow - a very nice person], but how many stayed on the Krim?
    In 18th century christians (incl. Goths) were settled through russia from the Krim to the Sea of Azov. These Goths must have finish in the greeks. The others that stayed on the Krim were assmiliated in the muslim tatars, but have spoken there gotic language some years after the evacuation of the christs from the Krim.
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    Re: AW: Re: Crimean Goths

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluterbe
    The others that stayed on the Krim were assmiliated in the muslim tatars, but have spoken there gotic language some years after the evacuation of the christs from the Krim.
    Do you really think that some Tatars are the descendants of the Goths? Do we know for sure that this 'Evacuation' was complete? Was it a recorded historical event, for example - do we know which Khan enacted it and why? If it was still in living memory in the time of the Russian conquest, then any possible 'false converts' to Islam could easily have reverted to their older affiliations. Lots of Christians in Anatolia survived underground for many decades, and are possibly still there.
    If some Goths were indeed Tatarised, and one would assume Islamised too, then they may just as likely have assimilated into the invading Russian society. Was there much mixing of Tatar and Russian under early Russian rule in the Crimea?

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    Re: Crimean Goths

    Crimean Tatars of the Steppe (mainland Ukraine), are mixed Turkics, and Mongols, but the Coastal Tatars, are descended from Goths, Greeks, Scythians, Sarmatians...

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    Dear friends, if the theme interesting for you yet, I can to write something on it. There is an interestnig Russian book on this theme - "Crimean Gothia", by A. Pioro.

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    There is a myth that certain Tatar or Cossack groups round Crimea are particularly Gothic therefore Germanic. Common sense says there be truth in this same as Tatars often have Alan origins, but appeal to descent from ancient Goths has been mostly a political thing.

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    Calling them Goths is something of a misnomer. Crimean Gothic is indeed east germanic but it's not actually descended from Gothic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Terror View Post
    Calling them Goths is something of a misnomer. Crimean Gothic is indeed east germanic but it's not actually descended from Gothic
    I had to read up on this, and found that there seems to be some contention in academic circles of both the origin of the 'Crimean Goths' (as a distinct ethnos) and 'Crimean Gothic' (as a language).

    On the Wikipedia page of Dory/Doros/Mangup (the past capital of the Crimean Goths), it says; "According to the 6th-century Byzantine historian Procopius of Caesarea, the region of Dory or Doros was settled by those Ostrogoths who refused to follow Theodoric the Great in his invasion of Italy in the 490s, marking the beginning of the Crimean Goths and their homeland, Gothia."

    While a Flemish ambassador to Constantinople, Ogier Ghiselin de Busbecq, wrote a report on the on the Crimean Goths in 1595, stating that he could not determine whether the they and their language was descended from Goths, or another Germanic tribe and language.

    Indeed, there seems to be a good amount of evidence pointing to Crimean Gothic language originating from either West or North Germanic languages, instead of old Gothic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea...classification
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    I don't buy the idea of Crimean Gothic being West or North Germanic. Its core vocabulary shows clear East Germanic features. Personally, I think it's an East Germanic language with western influence

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