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Thread: Coronavirus/COVID-19: Global Terror

  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    You have left out two important pieces of information: the first is that among the first deaths in Sweden we learnt that half or so of them were from Somalia.
    That was accounting only the deaths in the Stockholm region, no? Not the deaths in the whole of Sweden?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    This is the beginning. Transport industry is competitive, i.e. it has low margins and relatively high fixed costs. If a small proportion of the turnover disappears, the figures will turn red and the days until the business goes under are numbered. So, if a trucking company no longer can haul non-essential stuff to Walmart, the fixed costs of the operations will soon drive the trucking company into bankruptcy. A who will then haul the food from the farm and the fertilizer to the farm?

    So by restricting the economy to the "essential" things, truly essential operations such as transport and logistics can be crippled for a long time to come. What will happen with all that American manufacturing when there are no trucks? What will happen to Canadian farms? To French cheese factories? What would happen to the world if Maersk were to fail?
    Obviously, transportation of vital goods (such as food and medicine) will not grind to a halt, regardless of any red numbers on shipping companies' budgets. Governments have been throwing billions upon billions of dollars on different business sectors in order to keep them afloat. If they can do that for airline companies, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for shipping companies, farms or other vital industries, which literally saves us all from dying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    Our economy will fail if businesses are not able to ship things from one factory to another and then to the consumer in a timely fashion. And that would have catastrophic consequences for us all.
    I'm kind of confused as to why some people are so worried about the economy crashing. I mean, was everything going all hunky-dory before this crisis set in? What's in it for us to sustain the status quo?

    I suppose people who've been saving up for pension in the bank or in stocks are feeling the burn right now, and I feel sorry for those people. But in the bigger picture, I don't see a whole lot of downsides with the World economy going down the drain. I do see a lot of possible opportunities, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    In light of the various conspiracies being thrown around, I’ll offer my own opinion, which is formed as someone with a relative expertise in this area. This virus is a considerable threat. These bat coronaviruses that have crossed the species barrier to infect us (third one in just the last 17 years) have a tendency to result in overwhelming lung pathology (ARDS) in a significant portion of those infected. Luckily less so with this latest one, but that’s been offset by its transmissibility, which has given it the pandemic potential that the SARS and MERS coronaviruses lacked.

    Not that its lethality should be underestimated. I see some people running with the lower bound estimate of 0.4% mortality, which is still four-fold worse than the flu, as some sort of proof that this whole thing is overblown. Besides the intellectual dishonesty of assuming the lowest estimate must be correct, I see a couple major issues with the argument. First, in the face of uncertainty about the true morbidity and mortality from an emerging virus, simply letting it run its natural course is a potentially brutal strategy, and the most prudent thing to do is intervene with full force to stop it. Second, trying to say this is a benign virus is moot, as we already know from experience that that isn’t the case. We have already seen what’s happened in Italy, Spain, and New York City, with substantial increases in deaths and the capacity of ICUs exceeded. Without public health intervention, it would have gotten even worse in those places, and that would become the situation the world over.

    Any opposition to that opinion is, I'm afraid, unfounded conspiracy. And this is just a general point but - trying to argue against conspiracy is impossible. Actual evidence has no value in dealings with beliefs people hold for the sole reason that they feel something must be so.

    I'm trying to imagine a scenario where a pandemic (a real one, if you for some reason don't think this is) occurs and it would not beget the same conspiracy theories, and I can't think it up.
    That is exactly the least prudent thing to do. To wreck the economy and give a corrupt and anti-white system totalitarian powers is an absolute worst case scenario that wouldn't be justifiable with a 40% death rate, let alone .4%.

    .4% is more like warn boomers not to get careless with hygiene and to self isolate, and be prepared for some of the fuckers to inevitably go down anyway, and they will only have themselves to blame. This .4% or whatever is what people voted for with their open borders and their limitless tourism, and what the journalists propagated for decades with their fanatical progressivism. It is only a perverse irony of destiny that now the media and academics are playing "I told you so" when they were the main agents of internationalism that permitted the virus to come in the first place. Let them deal with the consequences of what they have created and the rest of us go on with our lives.

  4. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    My hunch is that a large part of the higher Covid-19 related lethality in Sweden is a result of higher immigration into the country over the last decades compared to the other countries. About that I really, really, really do not care.
    Newly published statistic from the Swedish health authorities on the demographic transmission of the Chinksniffles:

    Name:  smitta.jpeg
Views: 82
Size:  113.6 KB

    Purple = Percentage of total infected cases
    Green = Percentage of Sweden's total population
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  6. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Newly published statistic from the Swedish health authorities on the demographic transmission of the Chinksniffles:

    Name:  smitta.jpeg
Views: 82
Size:  113.6 KB

    Red = Percentage of total infected cases
    Blue = Percentage of Sweden's total population
    Isn’t it also highly likely these immigrant groups naturally have poorer hygiene, live in more squalid conditions and are probably ignoring the stronger hygiene recommendations?
    If only you knew how bad things really are

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    Quote Originally Posted by leRoux View Post
    Isn’t it also highly likely these immigrant groups naturally have poorer hygiene, live in more squalid conditions and are probably ignoring the stronger hygiene recommendations?
    Yeah. There's been a lot of complaints from especially the Somali community about "not receiving adequate information". The stuff has been on the news constantly for two months, but apparently, a lot of them don't speak Swedish.

    I'm surprised to see Finns overrepresented, though. They don't have any language barrier to struggle with, and are just as hygienic as the native Swedes. The death toll and infection rate in Finland is also only a fraction of what it's been in Sweden so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    That was accounting only the deaths in the Stockholm region, no? Not the deaths in the whole of Sweden?
    So far, about half the deaths have been in Stockholm. Other stricken areas are Gothenburg and Malmö. Larger cities with large immigrant populations.

    Obviously, transportation of vital goods (such as food and medicine) will not grind to a halt, regardless of any red numbers on shipping companies' budgets. Governments have been throwing billions upon billions of dollars on different business sectors in order to keep them afloat. If they can do that for airline companies, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for shipping companies, farms or other vital industries, which literally saves us all from dying.
    So where will the pharmaceuticals come from? And the food? Farms must be supplied with fertilizer, lots of it, and pharmaceutical plants supplied with specialty chemicals. Food processing plants must be supplied with electrical fuses, and the trucking industry with spare parts for the refrigeration units. And so on. Shall the government take over and run these suppliers as well?

    It works well for a little while, but then the problems will start to build up and multiply. Reinforcing each other. Creating new problems. And so on. Pretty much like a virus infection.

    Over the past decades, we have turned our economies into geographically and economically distributed just-in-time operations, relying on long logistical chains being run with extreme precision. Playing lock-down with such systems is dangerous.


    I'm kind of confused as to why some people are so worried about the economy crashing. I mean, was everything going all hunky-dory before this crisis set in? What's in it for us to sustain the status quo?

    I suppose people who've been saving up for pension in the bank or in stocks are feeling the burn right now, and I feel sorry for those people. But in the bigger picture, I don't see a whole lot of downsides with the World economy going down the drain. I do see a lot of possible opportunities, however.
    Indeed, globalism seems to be dying right now. That is good. Every cloud has a silver lining.

    The other positive thing is that the immigrants will be seen more and more as a burden which we cannot afford. And that is super.

    Quote Originally Posted by leRoux View Post
    IsnĆ‚Ā’t it also highly likely these immigrant groups naturally have poorer hygiene, live in more squalid conditions and are probably ignoring the stronger hygiene recommendations?
    Also, they are heavy smokers, they do not exercise, they eat lots of sugar, and have a darker skin that prevents vitamin D synthesis. So when they get it, they are not equipped to handle it as well as a Swede who does not do all that bad stuff. As I wrote, 6 of the first 15 dead were Somalis. Way above even their share of the infected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Yeah. There's been a lot of complaints from especially the Somali community about "not receiving adequate information". The stuff has been on the news constantly for two months, but apparently, a lot of them don't speak Swedish.
    We are currently planning to send all our dear precious Somalis to Norway where they can be taken care of.

    I'm surprised to see Finns overrepresented, though. They don't have any language barrier to struggle with, and are just as hygienic as the native Swedes. The death toll and infection rate in Finland is also only a fraction of what it's been in Sweden so far.
    First I thought that it could be an artifact of settlement patterns, the Finns in Sweden mainly came here as industrial workers in the post-war era and are more concentrated in cities. But the same goes for the Yugoslavs, and they have a pattern more in line with that of Swedes.

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    German Lawyer Sent to Psych Ward for Organizing Protest Against COVID-19 Lockdown



    In the Soviet Union, activists were sent to state psychiatric wards. According to the state, any and all opposition to government policy was considered a form of mental illness.

    Stephanie Buck writes about the treatment of the “social parasite” Joseph Brodsky.

    'In 1963, Russian poet Joseph Brodsky was seized and sent to a mental institution… Hospital workers pumped him with tranquilizers and repeatedly woke him during the night. He was given cold baths and wrapped in wet canvas that shrank and cut his skin while drying."

    It is not likely German lawyer Beate Bahner will be tortured like Brodsky. However, that does not make her arrest and forced confinement in a mental institution any less egregious.

    More...

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    'Lock her up!': Anti-Whitmer coronavirus lockdown protestors swarm Michigan Capitol

    Demonstrators were supposed to stay in their cars for social distancing. Not everyone did.









    Thousands of demonstrators descended on the state Capitol in Lansing, Michigan, on Wednesday to protest Gov. Gretchen Whitmer's restrictive stay-at-home order, clogging the streets with their cars while scores ignored organizers' pleas to stay inside their vehicles.

    The protest — dubbed "Operation Gridlock" — was organized by the Michigan Conservative Coalition and the Michigan Freedom Fund, a DeVos family-linked conservative group. Protesters were encouraged to show up and cause traffic jams, honk and bring signs to display from their cars. Organizers wrote on Facebook: "Do not park and walk — stay in your vehicles!"

    Many ignored the demand. Demonstrators, on foot, were seen waving American, "Don't Tread on Me" and Trump campaign flags. At least two Confederate flags were spotted.

    Protesters could be heard chanting "Open up Michigan!" At one point, there was a "lock her up" chant in reference to Whitmer.

    "We can get this rally done and stay within the social distancing guidelines,” Marian Sheridan, a Michigan Conservative Coalition co-founder, said in a statement ahead of the rally. "Citizens are frankly tired of being treated like babies. As adults, we now know what needs to be done to stay safe."

    Speaking to NBC affiliate WOOD of Grand Rapids, one woman attending suggested she didn't entirely trust the social distancing recommendations being made by "the so-called scientists" like Dr. Anthony Fauci, adding that she believes "very strongly in herd immunity."

    Tom Norton, a Republican running to unseat Rep. Justin Amash, who left the Republican Party last year, told WOOD that "the cure is worse than the disease," pointing to the impact of the shutdowns on small businesses and the potential for rising rates of depression and suicide.

    The organizers' Facebook page was flooded with comments, both in support and against the protest.

    "Can people PLEASE stay in their cars, and if they get out, to wear masks and practice social distancing?" one Facebook user posted. "The statists will use any excuse to discredit the protest, so please don't give them a freebie."

    "The guys on the steps of the (Capitol) are putting this protest backwards," another wrote. "Now we are going to be portrayed as far right extremist. Thanks allot jerks...Stay in your dam car and put the freaking rifles away...You're going to ruin this for everyone!"

    At her Wednesday press conference, Whitmer directly addressed the protesters saying she understands their "frustration" and is OK with people taking out their anger on her. But she mentioned health care workers and those who have lost loved ones to the virus and said those protesting need to understand how easy the disease can spread and that those who do die from it often have to be alone at the end.

    "I respect your opinions," Whitmer said, adding, "I just urge you, don't put yourself at risk and don't put others at risk either."

    She said she was "really disappointed" to see people congregating outside and not wearing masks. She also pointed to the Confederate flags that were waved at the rally and mentioned that one individual was even passing candy out to children. Additionally, she said untold numbers of people may have touched gas pumps to get to Lansing, potentially spreading infection.

    "We know this rally endangered people," she said, adding that such activity "will put more people at risks and could prolong how long we need to be in this posture."

    She said it was a "sad irony" that the protest may necessitate to a lengthening of the stay-at-home order.

    Lt. Brian Oleksyk with the Michigan State Police told NBC News that between 3,000 and 4,000 people attended the event and "for the majority, the protest is peaceful at this time and has been," adding that most "have been following the social distancing." Only one arrest has so far been made, and no violations of the executive order have been issued.

    He also said protesters should not block any significant roadways near the hospital, as posts on social media showed one area hospital being clogged by cars. Local public transit announced on Twitter its service was disrupted downtown and in nearby areas because of the gridlock and that it was "unable to accommodate life-sustaining and medically necessary trips to or from these areas."

    The protests came after Whitmer last week signed one of the nation's most restrictive orders aimed at curbing the spread of COVID-19 in Michigan — one of the nation's hardest hit states.

    More than 27,000 cases have been confirmed in the state with at least 1,700 deaths. In Wayne County, home to Detroit, 820 people have died, per a Johns Hopkins University tracker. Wayne County has more deaths than any county in the U.S. outside of New York state.

    The order contained several provisions that were unpopular with some Michiganders, such as barring in-state travel to vacation residences and a tightening of business restrictions that included large stores having to close areas "dedicated to carpeting, flooring, furniture, garden centers, plant nurseries, or paint." State Republican lawmakers said the order unnecessarily curtailed freedoms and harmed businesses.

    But it was difficult to completely divorce the backlash from partisan politics, as Whitmer, a Democrat, had in recent weeks become a visible leader among the governors responding to the coronavirus outbreak, garnering attention from Joe Biden as a possible running mate and tangling with President Donald Trump. The pushback has been fanned by prominent national conservatives and elected leaders, and some misinformation about the order has circulated.



    On Monday, Whitmer spent much of her news conference addressing the backlash, saying every action she's taking is centered on flattening the state's curve of infections. The latest order was signed with the aim of curbing foot traffic in stores and preventing the outbreak focused in the state's southeastern corner from spreading quickly through the northern and more rural parts of the state, where the health system is not well equipped for a major outbreak.

    "It's OK to be frustrated. It's OK to be angry," Whitmer added. “If it makes you (feel) better to direct it at me, that's OK, too. I've got thick skin. And I'm always going to defend your right to free speech."

    In a recent court filing, Whitmer acknowledged the right to protest amid the stay-at-home order.

    Speaking with NBC's "Today Show" on Wednesday, Whitmer said more robust testing is needed in her state before things can begin to be opened up. Amid outrage over the shutdown of golf and gardening, Whitmer pointed to snow falling across Michigan Wednesday, adding that a "couple more weeks is not going to meaningfully impact people's ability to do so" because the weather was already playing its part.

    The Michigan brouhaha comes amid a larger national debate over how to reopen parts of the economy while keeping the outbreak at bay. In the northeast, seven states have banded together to come up with a regional plan for doing so, as have the three states along the Pacific coast. Trump, meanwhile, has launched a task force to come up with such plans and work alongside state leaders.

    Asked about Whitmer's order on Monday, Trump said "its a very strong position to take. But they're making a lot of progress in Michigan, so let's see how it all works out."

    Michigan isn't the only place where such protests have taken place this week. On Monday, about 100 protesters gathered outside the Ohio statehouse in Columbus to push for Republican Gov. Mike DeWine to reopen the state. And in Raleigh, more than 100 protesters gathered to protest Democratic North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper's stay at home order. At least one protester was charged with violating Cooper's order. That event was organized by a group called ReopenNC.

    "Some people want to completely obliterate these restrictions," Cooper said at a Monday press conference. "It would be a catastrophe."

    Source: NBCnews.com

    “When a nation forgets her skill in war, when her religion becomes a mockery, when the whole nation becomes a nation of money-grabbers, then the wild tribes, the barbarians drive in.“ – Robert Howard

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    So, Michigan with 9,9 million inhabitants have at least 1,700 deaths while Sweden with 10,3 million inhabitants have 1,333 dead.

    Sweden has no "lock-down" in place. Only recommendations that most people follow. I also think it had a week or two head start in infections. But opening up Michigan would be a disaster? Yeah, right.... As I see it, these clowns are now trying to justify their decisions by telling horror stories about how awful it could be.

    And as we learnt from a recent Harvard study, this might have to go on for two more years. Now we are a month into the process with another 23 months to go. After that, Americans will be going to Mexico for work.

    Meanwhile in Sweden: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...flockimmunitet [i.e. there are some positive signs, among others that we are beginning to see the first signs of herd immunity effects now]

    "The Heard" as we apparently call it looks better by the day.

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    We had two Corona cases in our family, seemingly indirectly connected over 3 or 4 turns with that Ischgl case: A friend of a member of my family had a friend who was Skiing there, sth. like that. So I was in Quarantäne for two weeks but tested negative on COVID-19.

    My state is the most affected one in Germany. I tell you, it's no fun. The measures of the state government are the most strict ones in all of Germany. Social and economic life are almost dead. You can't see a friend who doesn't live in your flat in public. At least not on the paper...

    All bars/restaurants/clubs/discos/festivals/fun fairs/Volksfeste/ etc. are banned for an unknown time or just closed.

    This will be the most boring and sad summer ever. NOTHING to look forward to! All stuff I love is banned or deemed illegal. With that rate of infection it will take years to achieve 'herd immunity'. The chosen strategy...I doubt that's the right way.

    I wish everyone here good luck and no infections in your families. Take care!!!
    Loyal to my hate

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