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Thread: Scottish Nationalist Party / SNP

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYAnglo View Post
    "It's the people of Scotland that are sovereign" says the SNP politician wanting to return the country to the EU. One can't invent these things.
    So because you are sovereign you want to give it up towards a supra-state as opposed to remain in a united kingdom with you were already in a union for a long while? Doesn't really make since. What exactly are the advantages of the EU? I always here it is "trade", well you can trade with anyone in the world, if you really want to, No EU needed. "But we want to travel freely" - Again, with EU it's not marginally easier. You may have to show your passport, but that isn't really a hinderance. After all, aren't you glad to get all kinds of controls, curfews, testing, contact-apps, etc. And there you have a problem with getting your passport stamp when travelling cross border. I'd rather have my freedom back, with borders, and it even seems as if having borders is a prerequisite for having freedom.

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  3. #22

    ‘You’ve made everything worse!’ Neil Oliver rages at Sturgeon as he lists SNP disasters



    NICOLA STURGEON has been slammed for making "everything worse" by Scottish TV presenter Neil Oliver in a fiery rant over the SNP's record in government.



    Neil Oliver criticised the SNP for failing to improve the lives of ordinary Scots despite Nicola Sturgeon's party being in power north of the border for the best part of fourteen years. The TV presenter also raised concerns over a string of scandal to engulf Holyrood in recent years. Neil Oliver insisted the
    SNP has been in power for "too long" and listed the failings of the party across key areas such as health and education, adding the SNP have made Scotland "worse."


    He told Mike Graham on TalkRADIO: "If after fourteen years all the evidence shows that you have made everything worse then you can't do it and you have been in place for too long. "Everything has gone down, education, health the hospital that can't open."


    Referring to Glasgow's once-thriving shipbuilding industry the archaeologist mourned the industry's subsequent decline. He said: "100 years ago a tenth of the world's shipping was built on the Clyde, now we can't buy a couple of ferries. They are rusting hulks on the Clyde.


    He also poured scorn on the SNP for the Queensferry Bridge scandal which saw the Ł1.35billion crossing over the Forth forced to close in 2019 after falling ice smashed car windscreens. Falling icicles has forced the bridge between Fife and Edinburgh to close as engineers worked to make the structure safe for commuters during cold and windy conditions. "The Bridge that had to close because if it is icy blocks of ice could wreck cars," Mr Oliver told Graham.


    He went on to blast "all sorts of scandals" relating to "individual SNPs," saying: "The person who is being groomed effectively as the First Minister's successor, Mackay. "He had to step away because he had been sending hundreds of tweets to a schoolboy, calling him cute." Derek Mackay, once tipped to replace Ms Sturgeon as First Minister, quit in 2020 following allegations he had befriended a schoolboy on social media, bombarding him with hundreds of online messages over a six month period. He was later suspended from the SNP by Ms Sturgeon.


    Mr Oliver continued: "There are others, there are legion, the scandalous and tawdry allegations about one SNP MSP after another are too many to mention. "They have just been there for too long." He added: "It is a fatigue that sets in and inertia that sets in, "They have had long enough to make Scotland a better place and by most metrics, they have made Scotland a worse place."


    Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP face crunch elections in Scotland on May 6.



    Fourteen years of your lifestyle gradually going downhill you don’t notice it as much as if it happened overnight, so the Scots should look back and ask themselves, Have the SNP made improved things and my way of living. And then decide how they vote.


    ‘You’ve made everything worse!’ Neil Oliver rages at ...

    28 II 2021.


    Samuel Johnson, who compiled the English dictionary once said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Meaning that any crime and any misbehaviour was tolerated as long as it was committed by one who kept shouting that he loved his country. And, on the other hand, the individual who questioned the behaviour of the country or government was a traitor, no matter how noble he/she was. In our time and in our country, too, this is true.

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    Scottish nationalists vow independence vote after election win

    Pro-independence parties won a majority in Scotland’s parliament on Saturday, paving the way to a high-stakes political, legal and constitutional battle with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson over the future of the United Kingdom.

    Scotland's First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said the result meant she would push ahead with plans for a second independence referendum once the COVID-19 pandemic was over, adding that it would be absurd and outrageous if Johnson were to try to ignore the democratic will of the people.

    "There is simply no democratic justification whatsoever for Boris Johnson, or indeed for anyone else, seeking to block the right of the people of Scotland to choose our own future," Sturgeon said.

    "It is the will of the country," she added after her Scottish National Party (SNP) was returned for a fourth consecutive term in office.

    The British government argues Johnson must give approval for any referendum and he has repeatedly made clear he would refuse. He has said it would be irresponsible to hold one now, pointing out that Scots had backed staying in the United Kingdom in a "once in a generation" poll in 2014.

    The election outcome is likely to be a bitter clash between the Scottish government in Edinburgh and Johnson's United Kingdom-wide administration in London, with Scotland's 314-year union with England and Wales at stake.

    The nationalists argue that they have democratic authority on their side; the British government say the law is with them. It is likely the final decision on a referendum will be settled in the courts.

    'IRRESPONSIBLE AND RECKLESS'

    "I think a referendum in the current context is irresponsible and reckless," Johnson told the Daily Telegraph newspaper.

    Alister Jack, the UK government's Scotland minister, said dealing with the coronavirus crisis and the vaccine rollout should be the priority.

    "We must not allow ourselves to be distracted - COVID recovery must be the sole priority of Scotland’s two governments," he said.

    The SNP had been hopeful of winning an outright majority which would have strengthened their call for a secession vote but they looked set to fall one seat short of the 65 required in the 129-seat Scottish parliament, partly because of an electoral system that helps smaller parties.

    Pro-union supporters argue that the SNP's failure to get a majority has made it easier for Johnson to rebut their argument that they have a mandate for a referendum.

    However, the Scottish Greens, who have promised to support a referendum, picked up eight seats, meaning overall there will be a comfortable pro-independence majority in the Scottish assembly.

    Scottish politics has been diverging from other parts of the United Kingdom for some time, but Scots remain divided over holding another independence plebiscite.

    However, Britain's exit from the European Union - opposed by a majority of Scots - as well as a perception that Sturgeon's government has handled the COVID-19 crisis well, along with antipathy to Johnson's Conservative government in London, have all bolstered support for the independence movement.

    Scots voted by 55%-45% in 2014 to remain part of the United Kingdom, and polls suggest a second referendum would be too close to call.

    Sturgeon said her first task was dealing with the pandemic and the SNP has indicated that a referendum is unlikely until 2023. But she said any legal challenge by Johnson's government to a vote would show a total disregard for Scottish democracy.

    "The absurdity and outrageous nature of a Westminster government potentially going to court to overturn Scottish democracy, I can't think of a more colourful argument for Scottish independence than that myself," she said.

    Reuters

  5. #24

    UK LOCAL ASSEMBLY & COUNCILS ELECTIONS May 2021


    Elections 2021 results

    Scotland results



    129 of 129 seats.
    Counting complete.65 seats needed for majority

    • SNP
      Scottish National Party
      64
      seats
    • CON
      Conservative
      31
      seats
    • LAB
      Labour
      22
      seats
    • GRN
      Green
      8
      seats
    • LD
      Liberal Democrat
      4
      seats
    • ALB
      Alba
      0
      seats


    Wales results



    60 of 60 seats.
    Counting complete.31 seats needed for majority

    • LAB
      Labour
      30
      seats
    • CON
      Conservative
      16
      seats
    • PC
      Plaid Cymru
      13
      seats
    • LD
      Liberal Democrat
      1
      seat
    • GRN
      Green
      0
      seats
    • AWA
      Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party
      0
      seats


    England results


    139 of 143 councils.
    Counting under way.Number of councillors

    • CON
      Conservative
      2,301
      councillors
    • LAB
      Labour
      1,327
      councillors
    • LD
      Liberal Democrat
      570
      councillors
    • IND
      Independents
      248
      councillors
    • GRN
      Green
      139
      councillors
    • RA
      Residents' Association
      42





    BBC NEWS


    Could Scottish Independence fight end up in Court?



    A big topical issue of today, Scottish Independence to return to the European Union. It's a fallacy. What's the point of ending UK membership to be a dependent satellite of the EU?


    Will Catalonia get the same encouragement and aid from Britain that the EU Brussels Politburo has given Sturgeon and the SNP? It's time they did.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdmesser View Post
    A big topical issue of today, Scottish Independence to return to the European Union. It's a fallacy. What's the point of ending UK membership to be a dependent satellite of the EU?


    Will Catalonia get the same encouragement and aid from Britain that the EU Brussels Politburo has given Sturgeon and the SNP? It's time they did.
    The Scottish Nationalists are obviously a bit misguided there. Shows you the importance of metapolitics, since that it's where it is lacking.

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    Should Scotland actually someday secede from the UK, it won't be true independence they wind up with then. Just reenslavement to Brussels looks like to this foreign observer. As already noted by others here, it seems the SNP has f-all to do with true nationalism for the native Scots.
    "Almost every name belongs to well-known families of English stock....these soldiers were of ancient American lineage"- Prof. N.S. Shaler on the 1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade, Confederate States Army

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagdmesser View Post
    Samuel Johnson, who compiled the English dictionary once said: “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.” Meaning that any crime and any misbehaviour was tolerated as long as it was committed by one who kept shouting that he loved his country. And, on the other hand, the individual who questioned the behaviour of the country or government was a traitor, no matter how noble he/she was. In our time and in our country, too, this is true.
    I recall the saying that "Patriotism is a virtue of the wicked". I've seen it subscribed to several authors. I found that rather obnoxious, because with the reasoning above, you for sure could say the same about religiosity, charity or humanitarianism as well. People tend to hide their intentions behind something that is considered virtuous. So it would be surprising, if patriotism would have been spared that fate. Well, it didn't.

    Patriotism went mostly out of fashion after WW2... As did attachment to a monarchic dynasty previously (or for that matter church, religion or confession). Although shapes and forms of that kind did survive in folklore. People have found replacements though. Now it's the "Greater Good of Mankind", "The environment", or some protected identity group, which nowadays come designed by academics.

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  11. #28
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    In my eyes, true patriotism is loyalty to one's own blood folk and the preservation, self-determination of the same folk in a land they are natives of, or have made their own by the blood and sacrifice of many generations, as with my homeland. Definitely not allegiance to any particular government, leader, etc.
    "Almost every name belongs to well-known families of English stock....these soldiers were of ancient American lineage"- Prof. N.S. Shaler on the 1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade, Confederate States Army

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  13. #29

    Left-Wing Scottish Separatists Fail to Gain Majority, But Will Still Push for Independence Vote




    LONDON (AP) — The Scottish National Party won its fourth straight parliamentary election on Saturday and insisted it will push on with another referendum on Scotland’s independence from the U.K. even though it failed by one seat to secure a majority.


    Final results of Thursday’s election showed the SNP winning 64 of the 129 seats in the Edinburgh-based Scottish Parliament. The result extends the party’s dominance of Scottish politics since it first won power in 2007.

    Other results from Super Thursday’s array of elections across Britain emerged Saturday, including the Labour Party’s victory in the Welsh parliamentary election. Labour’s Sadiq Khan was also reelected mayor of London.

    The election with the biggest implications was the Scottish election, as it could pave the way to the break-up of the United Kingdom. The devolved government has an array of powers but many economic and security matters remain within the orbit of the British government in London.

    Though the SNP won the vast majority of constituencies, it failed to get the 65 seats it would need to have a majority as Scotland allocates some by a form of proportional representation. Though falling short, the SNP will be easily able to govern for the five-year parliamentary term with the eight members of the Scottish Greens, who also back Scottish independence.

    SNP leader and Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, said her immediate priority would be steering Scotland through the coronavirus pandemic and that the legitimacy of an independence referendum remains, SNP majority or not. “This is now a matter of fundamental democratic principle,” Sturgeon said. “It is the will of the country.”

    U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, the leader of the Conservative Party, would have the ultimate authority whether or not to permit another referendum on Scotland gaining independence. Johnson appears intent on resisting another vote, setting up the possibility of renewed tensions between his government and Sturgeon’s devolved administration.

    The prime minister wrote in the Daily Telegraph newspaper published Saturday that another referendum would be “irresponsible and reckless” in the “current context” as Britain emerges from the pandemic. He has consistently argued that the issue was settled in a September 2014 referendum, when 55% of Scottish voters favoured remaining part of the U.K. Proponents of another vote say the situation has changed fundamentally because of Brexit, with Scotland taken out of the European Union against its will. In the 2016 Brexit referendum, 52% of the U.K. voted to leave the EU while 62% of Scots voted to remain.

    Sturgeon said it would be wrong for Johnson to stand in the way of a referendum and that the timing is a matter for the Scottish Parliament. There’s been growing talk that the whole issue may end up going to court, but Sturgeon said the “outrageous nature” of any attempt by the British government to thwart the democratic will of Scotland would only fuel the desire for independence. “I couldn’t think of a more powerful argument for independence than that,” she said.

    The Scotland results have been the main focus since an array of local and regional elections took place Thursday across Britain, in which around 50 million voters were eligible to vote.

    In Wales, the concluded vote count showed Labour doing better than expected as it extended its 22 years in control of the Welsh government despite also falling one seat short of a majority. Mark Drakeford, who will remain first minister, said the party will be “radical” and “ambitious.”

    Ballots continue to be counted from local elections in England, which already have been particularly good for Johnson’s Conservative Party, notably its victory in a special election in the post-industrial town of Hartlepool for a parliamentary seat that Labour had held since 1974. That win extended the party’s grip on parts of England that had been Labour strongholds for decades, if not a century. Many seats that have flipped from red to blue voted heavily for Brexit. The speedy rollout of coronavirus vaccines also appears to have given the Conservatives a boost even though the U.K. has recorded Europe’s highest COVID-related death toll at 127,500.

    For Labour’s new leader, Keir Starmer, the Hartlepool result was a huge disappointment and has led to another bout of soul-searching in a party that in 2019 suffered its worst general election performance since 1935. Starmer said he would soon set out a strategy of how it can reconnect with traditional voters. He hasn’t given details though is thought to be considering a re-jig of his top team, starting off with removing his deputy, Angela Rayner, from her roles of party chair and campaign coordinator.

    Though Labour is clearly losing ground in its traditional heartlands, its support held up in other parts of England, such as the big cities.

    In London, Sadiq Khan won a second term in elections delayed by a year because of the pandemic. He secured 55.2% of the vote once second preference votes were counted, beating his Conservative rival Shaun Bailey got 44.8%. Khan’s winning margin was down slightly on last time.

    The party also won other mayoral races, including Steve Rotherham in the Liverpool City Region, Andy Burnham in Greater Manchester and Dan Norris in the West of England region, which includes the city of Bristol.

    The Conservatives’ Andy Street, meanwhile, was re-elected as mayor of the West Midlands, which includes the city of Birmingham.





    I know the Scottish are very patriotic and love their country ,as I do with Yorkshire, England and also the UK, but WHY would they want to leave the UK, and join the Communist EU and have less say in how they are governed then than now? It beggars belief. Do we now start building a wall across the border and round London?



    There was one newspaper reviewer this morning who said that when you looked at the actual numbers of the votes cast in Scotland, 51% were for parties that did not want them to break away from the United Kingdom.
    It was just the way the boundaries and voting system worked that gave the illusion of a majority who want to leave. Most of the Scottish people that I have spoken to online want to stay in the Union.
    We all remember the 2015 election result. The SNP had 1,454,436 votes and won 56 seats. UKIP had 3,881,099 votes and won 1 seat. That shows how badly rigged against us our electoral system is.



    Sturgeon also Hates the English
    , for Gods sake Bozo give her the bloody Referendum!
    But make sure that you implement right away after they vote to Leave the following:
    1 Stop the Barnett Formula.
    2 Move the Nuclear Submarine base to Devonport England.
    3 Move the RAF Bases to England.
    4 Close and relocate all Government Agencies/Offices.
    5 Make her pay their share of the National Debt.
    6 No Pound Sterling.
    7 A Very Hard Border, no access to EU vehicles to travel through England.
    8 No access to our Fishing Waters.
    9 Give the Shetlands, Orkneys, Hebrides the choice to Remain part of the UK.


    Johnson has a nuclear option beyond saying yes or no to a referendum. He has the power to close Holyrood. The best option and the one that should be used. Give her enough rope, Sturgeon will hang herself.
    The Shetlands and Orkney Councils have already voted to pursue independence from Scotland, sadly, The Hebrides voted SNP.


    Now if he had a backbone, that's what he should do and arrest Sturgeon, for inciting insurrection and revolution. The problem is like her, he's a leftist leaning Marxist as well and there lies the problem.


    The whole Devolved Parliament scheme introduced by Blair(?) was the very start of the EU's Plan to Divide the UK into Regions of their planned EU Super State.


    Following the end of the First World War, boundaries were determined in a number of places by plebiscites. Since the border areas with England voted Conservative, and therefore pro Union, should they not also have the right to remain part of the UK as well, if there was a future referendum, and not be forced into an independent Scotland against their wishes?


    Corruption within Scottish politics is now at weapons-grade level. The constituency vote can be easily rigged. Holding ballot boxes overnight, for counting to start in the morning, is straight out of the Democrats playbook. It's hardly surprising that the SNP kept power. BUT, this depends on the support of the Greens. Here is another figure against the SNP: 36% of the electorate could not even be arsed to vote. Therefore, at least 65% of the electorate did note vote SNP. Sturgeon has no mandate for independence and she knows it.
    With a part PR vote, we will always have a left-wing fudge for government.


    Democrats favourite trick in states where they know they can't win is to wait for all the conservative counties to report. They are always "still counting". Once all the other totals are in, they finally report their numbers and always just eke out a win over 90% of the way the rest of the state voted.


    Same here in Scotland. I would like to see how many conservatives were in the lead and how many lost when the PV / postal vote was counted. Although the SNP has the majority party, a lot of the winners only came through by a few votes. I feel there should be many re-counts and vote vetting.


    This is the whole BS about their argument. You're not independent if you go right back to the EU. You are a vassal of the Franco/German alliance that runs the EU. Re-joining the EU is not independence. It is slavery.


    It is dishonest to say that countries like Ireland are fully independent. When they had their vote on the Lisbon Treaty, the EU poured millions into the effort and bought off one after another Irish politician. It is really not that hard to manipulate the vote of a 5 million nation from the outside and get what you want. It's an illusion of independence.


    She has no 'skin in the game'.

    Fully understandable. Who would want to breed with that.


    The SNP masquerade as Nationalists bur are really Marxists. The same with the Conservative party down south. Johnson masquerades as a Conservative but he's really a Marxist also. Just like the government he picked. Not one has a true conservative bone in their body and like Sturgeons SNP, they impose identity politics upon the nation.
    Do some research on the people and parties, where they presently sit politically. What we can say for definite is not one mainstream political party, is pro-rightwing and for the indigenous people of this island.


    Headline should read "half-wit coalition of self-hating scots, LGBTQ and migrants activists persist in anti-UK separatist fantasy" The SNP will never get their wish, just a never ending minority of votes large enough to retain power under our desperately corrupt FPTP system.



    Scots living elsewhere in the UK must be given a vote in any future independence referendum as an independent Scotland would alter their status from being British and Scottish to that of a foreigner who happens to be Scottish.



    Ban the SNP. Or at the very least, hold it to the same scrutiny that the BNP had, bigotry against the "English" is still bigotry.




    Left-Wing Scottish Separatists Fail to Gain Majority, But Will Still Push for Independence Vote

    11 V 2021.

    Should 50% + 1 of a partial vote should ever be allowed to decide the dissection of a Nation?



    Society works when the people co-operate and there's representative politicians. No System is perfect for all. How should 'Politics' be improved?



    The EU won’t allow independence referendums in Spain, France, or anywhere in it’s realm.Why should the UK? Bosnia, soon to join the EU, have 3 major ethnic groups two of which want to join Croatia and Serbia.


    A referendum should require 67% or at least 60%.of the electorate. If a referendum is carried out to decide on a nation's future, any non-participation should be treated as voting "No".


    Should there be regular binding referendums on major issues, at least like Switzerland?


    Should Politicians be accountable, their bank accounts and assets annually declared and checked? This would mean an end to 'fake news' and free speech for all.


    Like the USA, should all Nationals holding citizenship have a vote?


    Should those with a ‘criminal record’ have the right to vote.


    Where does the right to independence end? States, Regions, Counties, Cities, Districts, streets, properties?

  14. #30
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    Might be timely for the English to look into refurbishing Hadrian's Wall, lol.
    "Almost every name belongs to well-known families of English stock....these soldiers were of ancient American lineage"- Prof. N.S. Shaler on the 1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade, Confederate States Army

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