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Thread: White Liberal Men and Mental Chimerism

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    Senior Member Dani's Avatar
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    White Liberal Men and Mental Chimerism

    I've kind of been working on a theory. Pretty much everyone who understands gender differences comments on the fact that White liberal men often display (negative) female mental traits. This is an issue regardless of how physically masculine they appear to be. For example:

    - They have higher verbal IQs and use them to manipulate those around them.
    - They rationalize their emotional desires rather than use actual statistics to determine the right option.
    - They enjoy 'shit-testing' society.

    Seriously, just talk to a genuinely dedicated White progressive man and you'll see these traits. I wonder - could they have a form of microchimerism? See:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchimerism

    Basically I'm saying that some White liberal men may have 'hermaphroditic' brains and this is affecting their view of the world. They end up combining negative male and female mental traits. They have too much testosterone to be nurturing like women yet lack the aspects of the male brain which control and regulate testosterone related behaviors.

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    Could be microchimerism, although that would imply the phenomenon shouldn't be restricted to the modern era, but also present in previous eras of our history as well. Which it may have been, but it seems such behavior is by and large a modern phenomenon. Social stigma against feminine traits in men in previous times may possibly explain it being potentially repressed, though.

    What I find a more likely explanation, would be all the xeno-estrogens (and other hormone disturbing agents) which modern humans surround themselves with and consume.
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    Another alternative explanation may be that it's purely psychological in origin, and a product of the comforts, safety and convenience of modern life. I don't mean to belittle women, but I honestly think that acquiring/exhibiting feminine character traits is less demanding and taxing than acquiring/exhibiting masculine character traits. At least in the modern era. And at least for men, who don't have the physical predilections, restraints and taxing bodily functions of women.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't see women as physically less valuable than men. But for a male wanting to avoid the physical and mental responsibilities that goes along with that of a masculine male (for instance: physically defending his loved ones; gaining a violence capital; doing hard manual labor, etc.), assuming the characteristics of a woman becomes an easy way out of any responsibilities at all, given that his biology allows for it (for instance: not having to worry about pregnancy; being sexually preyed upon by other males, etc.). Ridding oneself of the masculine traits which are demanding, and replacing them with feminine traits which are more convenient, is therefore seen as a desirable and comfortable life choice.

    Even in terms of political views and rhetoric, I would argue that it is less demanding and risky to take on typically female thought- and behavioral patterns. Like arguing from a place of personal emotions, instead of educating oneself with facts and telling hard truths, or adopting the views of one's peers and the powers that be.

    Also social in life, the role of the masculine man is to be direct, pro-active, assertive, confident and self-assured. Exhibiting feminine traits demand a lot less personal risk and doesn't require the same amount of self-development.

    So all in all, it's a cop out from doing the hard work of becoming and being masculine, and wanting to have one's cake while eating it too. Just some thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Could be microchimerism, although that would imply the phenomenon shouldn't be restricted to the modern era, but also present in previous eras of our history as well. Which it may have been, but it seems such behavior is by and large a modern phenomenon. Social stigma against feminine traits in men in previous times may possibly explain it being potentially repressed, though.

    What I find a more likely explanation, would be all the xeno-estrogens (and other hormone disturbing agents) which modern humans surround themselves with and consume.
    I agree that xenoestrogens are a massive issue. I still think there's something to the microchimerism idea though (at least among some of the more ideologically motivated and politically active liberal men). Basically my view is that male pattern thinking is a result of both hormonal and genetic differences between men & women (the Y chromosome has something like 70 or so active genes and most of them are not testosterone dependent). This would cause a physically male person with XX cells in his brain to act very different from a normal man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Another alternative explanation may be that it's purely psychological in origin, and a product of the comforts, safety and convenience of modern life.
    I've heard the argument that the modern mentality of openness + ethno-masochism is a side effect of the industrial revolution but I don't think that meshes with historical data:

    - New England was a proto-liberal society long before the Industrial Revolution took place. Pennsylvania's anti-miscegenation was repealed in 1780 (before the Revolutionary War was even over) and most of New England had been opened up to mass immigration of ethnic foreigners in the 1840s. By the 1860s the idea of the USA as a proposition nation offering freedom to all of the world's peoples was being celebrated by men like Thomas Nast (a German immigrant):



    - The Chinese are physically smaller and have lower average testosterone levels than Nordics but are more nationalistic - and they're becoming more ethnocentric as they become wealthier.

    - The Russians industrialized generations after the Germans but adopted Marxism under Lenin whereas the Germans went in the opposite direction a decade and a half later under Hitler. If it was just about material comfort then you'd expect the opposite to have happened.

    So all in all, it's a cop out from doing the hard work of becoming and being masculine, and wanting to have one's cake while eating it too. Just some thoughts.
    It probably doesn't help that a huge number of men are brainwashed, high on dope, etc. Excessive marijuana use seems to be especially bad for men's testosterone levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    - The Chinese are physically smaller and have lower average testosterone levels than Nordics but are more nationalistic - and they're becoming more ethnocentric as they become wealthier.
    That is an interesting point. Don't know what to make of it, other than different races possibly responding differently to the same circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    - The Russians industrialized generations after the Germans but adopted Marxism under Lenin whereas the Germans went in the opposite direction a decade and a half later under Hitler. If it was just about material comfort then you'd expect the opposite to have happened.
    I suspect the socio-political rule under Hitler helped guide the population in a specific direction, which would be very different under a liberalist rule with the same material affluence. Also, I'm not so sure German NS and Soviet Marxism form the most relevant dichotomy in this regard. Very few people would characterize the socio-political climate of the Soviet Union as particularly 'feminine' (or open and ethno-masochistic).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    It probably doesn't help that a huge number of men are brainwashed, high on dope, etc. Excessive marijuana use seems to be especially bad for men's testosterone levels.
    The studies on marijuana use and testosterone in humans seems to be inconclusive. Some studies showing a significant decline correlating with use, others showing no correlation, and some actually showing slightly higher testosterone levels in regular users. Of course, there are a lot of factors which influence testosterone levels as well. Clinical experiments on rats, show a quite consistent and significant decrease, but how well that translates over to humans is not completely certain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    ....
    I've heard the argument that the modern mentality of openness + ethno-masochism is a side effect of the industrial revolution but I don't think that meshes with historical data:

    - New England was a proto-liberal society long before the Industrial Revolution took place. Pennsylvania's anti-miscegenation was repealed in 1780 (before the Revolutionary War was even over) and most of New England had been opened up to mass immigration of ethnic foreigners in the 1840s. By the 1860s the idea of the USA as a proposition nation offering freedom to all of the world's peoples was being celebrated by men like Thomas Nast (a German immigrant):
    ....
    I was under the impression that the early USA had a consensus that they are an immigration country for White people. Their early Naturalization Acts reflect that notion. It was accepted as so self-evident that it unfortunately wasn't incorporated into their constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    ....

    - The Russians industrialized generations after the Germans but adopted Marxism under Lenin whereas the Germans went in the opposite direction a decade and a half later under Hitler. If it was just about material comfort then you'd expect the opposite to have happened.
    ....
    The driving force for Marxism in Russia weren't exactly ethnic Russians.
    https://archive.org/details/MauriceP...rceOfCommunism
    https://archive.org/details/charless...ofsovietrussia


    My impression of Male White Liberals is also that they are a bit effeminate. I never met one that expressed strong male traits. I recall that there was even research done on this. The left has targeted fields with distribution value, like the humanities at universities. The subjects are also more popular with females than e.g. STEM fields.

    While I noticed a few things, I haven't looked into hormonal predisposition for political positions too deeply, but perhaps I should find that research again.

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    To be fair, Pennsylvania is not in New England.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dani View Post
    - The Chinese are physically smaller and have lower average testosterone levels than Nordics but are more nationalistic - and they're becoming more ethnocentric as they become wealthier.
    Unfortunately I don't have all the sources readily available (just the one below), but I looked into this about a year ago when I was concerned that lowering my meat intake may impact my virility. I looked into comparisons of testosterone in cultures that consume less meat in comparison to our own and found that in some cases they had higher T levels (not because of the lack of meat consumption, of course). So at least in the Anglosphere (guessing it's the same in the rest of the West), modern men in the native populations have lower average testosterone than Japanese and Chinese men. This was quite shocking.



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050097/

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    Quote Originally Posted by leRoux View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have all the sources readily available (just the one below), but I looked into this about a year ago when I was concerned that lowering my meat intake may impact my virility. I looked into comparisons of testosterone in cultures that consume less meat in comparison to our own and found that in some cases they had higher T levels (not because of the lack of meat consumption, of course). So at least in the Anglosphere (guessing it's the same in the rest of the West), modern men in the native populations have lower average testosterone than Japanese and Chinese men. This was quite shocking.



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050097/
    Total testosterone is sort of irrelevant, in regard to male vitality and masculine traits, as far as I've understood. Free testosterone is the marker to go by. As well as estradiol (being a female sex hormone). It's surprising that Hong Kong scores so high, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    Total testosterone is sort of irrelevant, in regard to male vitality and masculine traits, as far as I've understood. Free testosterone is the marker to go by. As well as estradiol (being a female sex hormone). It's surprising that Hong Kong scores so high, though.
    In this study it's still higher in men from Hong Kong.


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    This source is behind a paywall and doesn't seem to break down US results by race, but does show that free testosterone among Chinese men 18-24 is higher than US men. This is mostly people from Hong Kong also, it seems.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22482

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