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Thread: Cro Magnon Sites over the World

  1. #21
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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by NordicPower88
    Cro-magnons and their modern descendants the brunns and borrebies do not have African long bone proportions.
    Of course not...

    Sunghir 1 belongs to the group of the giant Cro-Magnon population. The extremely large length of clavicle didn't influence the estimation of the similarity of Sunghir 1 to the people of the Early Upper Paleolithic. Following the results of the principal component analysis one can see that large shoulder breadth reflects the adaptation to the cold stress. Apparently, the gradual intensification of the breadth development of the shoulder girdle, showed by Sunghir 1 (56 ° of North Latitude) and Magdalenians is not incidental. Nevertheless, there are no any specific traits, connecting Sunghir 1 and the European Neanderthals (opposite to Mousterians from Levant).



    The remainder of the Cro-Magnon skeleton is not fully known from the remains found at the original site, which are incomplete and poorly preserved. Skeletal material attributed to the Cro-Magnon race from other sites, however, affords the general impression of robustness, probably combined with powerful musculature. The forearm is relatively long, as is the thigh; the femur (thighbone) has a very prominent linea aspera (a bony ridge that runs lengthwise down the back of the femur), and the tibia is flattened from back to front (platycnemy). The hand skeleton is large with short fingers, and the foot has a prominent heel.

    Source: "Human Evolution." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2004. Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service.
    18 Apr. 2004 http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=127622.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by Triglav
    Do I really need to whip out some genetic studies?
    Please do.

    Unfortunately, your map doesn't say 30,000 BP but 1985. There's a difference between these two dates, you know...
    Yes, so why do you try to equate the Bruenn type with slavs then? The fact that it is in the Czech Republic means nothing, but two can play this game of course. The ethnic makeup of Czechs has changed probably every century.

    There was still Moravia in 1985?
    Well thats a pleasant surprise!

    Yes, the proto-Austrian empire 30k years ago.
    How is that relevant to this discussion? Obviously, the robust Brno type has to be found among the modern population of Moravia.
    LMAO
    Speaking of evolution: you do know that chamaecephaly is a primitive trait?
    Source?

    The Brno(Brünn) type is quite high-headed, as opposed to the chamaecephalic Cro-Magnid type. Eastern Europeans are higher-headed than their western counterparts, so there's obviously no link between Slavs and the Brünn type whatsoever.
    So the slavs are superior to germanics, right? Funny that there is no proof whatsoever that high skulls are related to high IQ scores.
    Anyway, Nordish.com does not mention that bruenns have high skulls, just a high forehead- and a high forehead does not equal a high skull.

    You said UP:
    Do you even know what UP stands for?
    Of course I do, why do you think I would mention Upper Paleolithic if I didnt know what it meant? I guess I should've been more specific that I meant Upper Paleolithic North-Western Europeans, and not the upper paleolithic human race as a whole.

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    Post Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyklop
    You are really cute, you know?
    Actually I was wrong about the Czech Republic not being slavic. My husband informs me that the soviets have massacred all people with German ancestry that lived there and brought in Russians to fill their place, so naturally nowadays they surely must be slavic.

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    Post AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by NordicPower88
    Actually I was wrong about the Czech Republic not being slavic. My husband informs me that the soviets have massacred all people with German ancestry that lived there and brought in Russians to fill their place, so naturally nowadays they surely must be slavic.
    Not Russians but Czechs and Slovaks.
    Anyway, I don´t mean to offend you but I seriously recommend you this book. It gives a good and comprehensible summary of the most important parts of our history and is refreshingly non-PC. Have fun.
    Tolerance is a proof of distrust in one's own ideals. Friedrich Nietzsche


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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    What could have been an ingenious reboot of Skadi's quality hallmark of high-flown, refreshing debates on paleoanthropology, littered with graphics, pictures and pdf from various sources, old and new, obscure and ready to pick up from the net with some easy googling, has compounded itself in a petty farce...

    All the contributions by Morfrain_Encilgar, Agrippa, Dr.Solar Wolff, Glenlivet, Triglav, Scoob, Willigut, Bennett, Polak, Euclides, me and so many others in the past couple of years seemingly haven't made either impression and/or difference...btw, Triglav, old chap, the Central European UP were on average orthocephalic, but the Predmost male was defintely low-skulled with a LHI of 66.

    As you may remember from my old posts, the high-skulled type can be single out in here and there of Europe during the Aurignician, but there isn't any conclusive material to infer that the introduction of moderns in Europe was lead by a high-skulled population.

    Actually, proper high-skulled types in SW Russia probably emerged with a migration of archaic and robust Mediterreneans from West Asia and in other situations, the orthocephalic trend in Old Europeans could have advanced a greater elevation of the skull without hybridisation.
    But, these events took place in the final stages of the Pleistocene, when the Cro Magnons were since long out of the pictures...

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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    Funny "discussion"...

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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by Goswin_van_Eyck
    btw, Triglav, old chap, the Central European UP were on average orthocephalic, but the Predmost male was defintely low-skulled with a LHI of 66.
    Frankie, old buddy. I was waiting for you to chime in (but perhaps when this discussion would have reached an adequate intellectual level). There were so many inconsistencies in this thread.



    There was more than one Predmosti skull. Personally, I am aware of two male and two female skulls. Let me guess - you're referring to the famous "neanderthaloid" Predmosti III skull, which was indeed low-skulled.



    But the Mladeč skull was higher-headed than the Old Man of Cro-Magnon and had a somewhat more capacious cranium.

    As you may remember from my old posts, the high-skulled type can be single out in here and there of Europe during the Aurignician, but there isn't any conclusive material to infer that the introduction of moderns in Europe was lead by a high-skulled population.
    I was talking about the single finds as opposed to populations. I lost track of all of NP88's inconsistencies, so may I be forgiven if I hadn't clarified my position. It was my fault that I got tangled up in her "Yes, the UP types are all descended from the Cro-magnons" kind of comments, so all of the subsequent comments were based on the wrong assumptions.

    If you observe the nature of some comments in this thread ("So the slavs are superior to germanics, right?"), it becomes pretty evident that this thread (or at least large parts therof) should be moved to one of the low-brow sub-fora.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Triglav; Friday, October 28th, 2005 at 07:41 AM.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by NordicPower88
    Please do.
    With pleasure:

    http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJH...02082.tb1.html

    You already acknowledged that Czechs are Slavic.

    The ethnic makeup of Czechs has changed probably every century.
    Yeah, okay...

    There was still Moravia in 1985?
    Well thats a pleasant surprise!
    Obviously a typo.


    Source?
    For what?

    So the slavs are superior to germanics, right?
    Oh, for crying out loud... Must these discussions always revolve around some pissing contests?

    Funny that there is no proof whatsoever that high skulls are related to high IQ scores.
    Skull height is positively correlated with brain size and the correlation between cranial capacity and intelligence is from 0.33 (McDaniel, 2005) to 0.40 (Jensen, 1998). But wait, there's more... If you want to have a large brain, you'd better have a skull that is long AND broad as well.

    As for IQ, please consult the first chart on this page: http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/NationalIQs.html . As far as I know, this is the only comparative IQ test carried out in Europe.
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

  9. #29
    Member Triglav's Avatar
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    Post Re: Cro-Magnon

    Quote Originally Posted by Goswin_van_Eyck

    Actually, proper high-skulled types in SW Russia probably emerged with a migration of archaic and robust Mediterreneans from West Asia and in other situations, the orthocephalic trend in Old Europeans could have advanced a greater elevation of the skull without hybridisation.
    Which populations would that be and who are they descended from? About 65% of Russians (who have a strong (Neolithic) Finnic component) and 75% of Poles are descedned from the Aurignacian paternal haplogroup R (R1a and R1b) and about 15% from the probably Gravettian haplogroup I. The rest are Neolithic contributions (E, J, G, N). The maternal haplogroup contribution is mapped out this chart:



    Naturally, there are several factors at play here, but most modern Europeans descend from Aurignacians and partly Gravattians (most notably the Balkanians and Scandinavians).
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    "slavic" languages are absolutely arteficial (Read "slawenlegende"). The "glagolica", invented by a bunch of monks, is nothing but an ancient esperanto, creating new words, definitions and alphabet out of regional slangs.

    The craddle of European Civilization comes from the North. All blond people originate from the north. So if you see a blond-blue eyed Slovene, Russian, Czech, Polak ect., you can be 100% sure that his ancient ancestors originated from "Germanics" (Germanic = Nordic).
    "slovenja" was the settelment of the Langobards = Germanics/Teutons. "Poland" of the Goths and East-Vandals ect. ect. What do "slavs" tell us about their origin?
    Some silly story that they originate from some swamps in the east and popped out of no where into history.

    So you see my dear "Gorostan" [=Triglav], you are in reality a "Germanic" indoctrinated with panslav propaganda and historic fantasy stories. ~Dr. Brandt, former TNP and Skadi member

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    Re: Cro-Magnon

    Where is the proof that Brunns and Borrebys spring forth from the same stock, and that they are descended from Cro-Magnon Man? Cro-Magnon was only one type of Paleolithic man, so Cro-Magnon is not equal to UP in all cases. There are fully brunette tall types in parts of Scotland, Wales and France who are morpholigically close to the Cro-Magnon skeletal type.
    As for Brunn, I think the name is misleading. There were several forms represented by the Brunn finds, and whether or not one of them played a part in the formation of modern-day Brunn race is not clear to me.
    The location of Brunn (Brno) would not necessarily be related to where the modern-day repesentatives live, as races in history have migrated completely or partially to other areas. I don't see alot of Brunn or Borreby in Austria, just a few partial UPs like Schwarzenegger. The UP element was probably brought in with Anglo-Saxon Nordic Germanic tribes. Austria is mostly various mixtures of Nordic (Hallstatt, Keltic, A/S), Alpine, Dinaric (Bell-Beaker and Etrusco-Rhaetic) and a small admixture of other types (Pontid?, Danubian?).
    The name Brunn gets even more confusing when you consider that Scandinavian Brunns are often very dolichocephalic, while the Irish Brunns are generally mesocephalic to sub-brachycehalic (average about 80)

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