View Poll Results: Which of these lost, assimilated or highly marginalized Germanic groups do you find most interesting

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  • Alsatians

    2 14.29%
  • Anglo-Irish

    3 21.43%
  • Baltic Germans

    3 21.43%
  • Danube Swabians

    3 21.43%
  • East Brandonburgers

    1 7.14%
  • East Pomeranians

    1 7.14%
  • Prussians (East and West Prussia, not kingdom)

    5 35.71%
  • Silesians

    3 21.43%
  • South Tyroleans

    3 21.43%
  • Sudetanlanders

    2 14.29%
  • Swedish Finss & Estonians

    4 28.57%
  • Transylvanian Saxons

    6 42.86%
  • Ulster Scots

    1 7.14%
  • Volga Germans

    5 35.71%
  • Other

    0 0%
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Thread: Which Of These Lost Or Highly Marginalized Germanic Groups Do You Find Most Interesting?

  1. #11
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    Danube Swabians, Transylvanian Saxons and Volga Germans are of particular interest to me.

    I wasn't aware that Estonians were considered Germanic, but I've noticed that many Estonians have German-sounding surnames.
    'Well, what are you?" said the Pigeon. "I can see you're trying to invent something!" "I-I'm a little girl," said Alice, rather doubtfully. She found herself at last in a beautiful garden, among the bright flower-beds and the cool fountains.



  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alice View Post
    I wasn't aware that Estonians were considered Germanic, but I've noticed that many Estonians have German-sounding surnames.
    I suppose it's a reference to the ethnic Swedes who settled in Estonia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Swedes

    Estonians proper are definitely not Germanic.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alice View Post
    I wasn't aware that Estonians were considered Germanic, but I've noticed that many Estonians have German-sounding surnames.
    I have been Estonia few times ... Tallinn, Pärnu, Saarenmaa ... and never heard Swedish.

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  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    I have been Estonia few times ... Tallinn, Pärnu, Saarenmaa ... and never heard Swedish.
    Yes, I've been to Estonia (several times), too, and have never heard Swedish spoken anywhere. Estonian and Russian, sure, but never Swedish.
    'Well, what are you?" said the Pigeon. "I can see you're trying to invent something!" "I-I'm a little girl," said Alice, rather doubtfully. She found herself at last in a beautiful garden, among the bright flower-beds and the cool fountains.



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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    I have been Estonia few times ... Tallinn, Pärnu, Saarenmaa ... and never heard Swedish.
    I was referring to the Estonian Swedes that are basically gone now as Ţoreiđar pointed out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer Stock View Post
    I was referring to the Estonian Swedes that are basically gone now as Ţoreiđar pointed out
    Yes, if there were still any left in Baltic states at 1940's .... then Stalin shipped the last ones to different destinations of huge Siberia. Whole Livonians (and their language) basically disappeared at same time. Anyway I think Germanics numbers have been pretty small in Baltic states from the beginning? 3 Baltic states were not long time under Sweden's crown (opposite to Finland) and their populations are small .... for example Estonia (today) is just 1,1 million ... which even incl. clear Russian minority via Sovjet's era.

    Today Estonians have new Gustav II Aldof's statue in Tartu city.


    No idea have they had those earlier (or name of places, name of streets etc.), and how much. If yes, then Russians probably have removed/changed those (1940-1990).

    PS: I correct my earlier post; I have talked Swedish with one Estonian in Tallinn, but that woman lived in Stockholm.

  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ţoreiđar View Post
    If Dacians supposedly were Germanic, then there surely should be some linguistic remnants of their language showing a connection to Proto-Germanic languages.
    [...]
    I can't see much of a similarity to Germanic languages. Their cognates are found in either Latin, Albanian, Greek, or Slavic. The only exception being 'gard' (fence), which does have Germanic cognates (in Old Norse and Gothic), as well as Old Slavic languages.
    Gard and gĺrd are false friends, they have different meaning... but well, they still belong to the same category of things... Which is the cognate in Old Norse and Gothic? I don't know... tell me! Anyway, I knew about that list which you found on Wikipedia, but I do not trust it. Here is why (some facts about the old Dacian/Getian language, and about Romanian language in general, among other things):

    John Mandis: “The oldest discoveries of some writing symbols were made at Turdaș and Tărtăria.”

    Ekström Par Olof: “The Rumanian language is a key-language that influenced, for the most part, all European languages.”

    University of Cambridge: “In the 4th millennium B.C., the Getic Carpathian space was the only space inhabited in Europe; The Carpathian, Getic or Wallachian space has represented the OFFICINA GENTIUM in antiquity, it has fueled with people and civilization, India, Persia, Greece, Italy, Germany, France and the so called Slavic space; The Vedas, the oldest literary monuments of humanity were created in the center of Europe.

    University of Cambridge (The Cambridge History of India, 1922): “The primary phase of the Vedic culture began in the Carpathians, most likely in Haar-Deal (Ardeal).”

    Jakob Grimm (The History of the German Language, 1785-1863): “The Dacian nomenclature for plants, kept by Dioscoride (Greek medic from the period of emperors Claudius and Nero) can be found in the background of the German language.”

    Miceal Ledwith (Ex-Counselor for Pope John Paul the 2nd): “The Rumanian language is grouped in the category of Latin languages as well, but during my lifetime, through my work, I came to understand that it is not that Rumanian is a Latin language, but rather that Old Rumanian is the language out of which Latin came. All European languages came from the Old Rumanian. No culture of the world has spoken the real history of the world, ever. Rumanian is wrongly considered a Latin language. It should be the other way around, Latin, Italian, Spanish are Rumanian languages. I am sure this fact will be acknowledged very soon.”

    Harald Haarman, German savant: “The oldest writing in the world is that of Tărtăria – Romania. The Danubian Civilization is the first great civilization in history, preceding by thousands of years the Sumerian civilization.”

    Mark Pagel, professor on Evolutionary Biology, Reading University of London: “Over 10.000 years ago, in the Carpathian region there lived a nation that spoke an unique language, precursor to Latin and Sanskrit.”


    Clémence Royer (The Bulletin of the Anthropological Society, Paris, 1879): “The Celts, Germans and Latins come from Eastern Europe and the traditions of the historic Aryans of Asia shows them as coming from the Occident. We have to search for the common cradle at the lower Danube, in this Pelasgian Thrace, that its language we ignore.


    Prof. Fabio Scialpi: “I am intrigued by the presence on the territory of Rumania, of a number of many toponyms of Sanskrit resonance.


    Bonaventura Vulcannius of Bruges, 1597: “The Getes had their own alphabet long before the Latin one was born. The Getes sang, using the flute, the deeds of their heroes, composing songs even before the foundation of Rome, that of which Cato says – the Romans started to do much later.”


    V. Titov, Russian archaeologist: “At Tărtăria emerged the oldest writing of humanity.”


    Pope Nicholas the 1st to Michael the 2nd of Byzantium: “The Greeks name the Latin language, the language spoken by the Scythians.”


    Courtenay Baoudin: “In Slavonic can be found many Rumanian words, especially in the language used by the Church.”

    Source
    In the light of these facts, that list of "Dacian words" makes no more sense for me. Also, in the dictionaries of the Romanian language, most words are considered borrowed from lots of other languages, which makes no sense. It's the other way around, actually... They need to reconsider the "official" version about the Romanian language, including its history...

    And I'm quoting this one more time:

    Jakob Grimm (The History of the German Language, 1785-1863): “The Dacian nomenclature for plants, kept by Dioscoride (Greek medic from the period of emperors Claudius and Nero) can be found in the background of the German language.”
    I don't like to speak or answer in quotes, but this time it was and is necessary, otherwise I'll keep being accused of claiming that kind of things myself, like if I invented it myself, without any evidence...


    Quote Originally Posted by Bleyer View Post
    Sure, history is not an exact science but we still can make approximations that are backed up by a majority of evidence. There is not an overwhelming number of historical, archeological, linguistic or genetic evidence to suggest that the Daci were Germanic
    Well, there is overwhelming evidence... which some are deliberately ignoring. I can't tell about genetic evidence at this point, but there is overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence... about linguistics they still need to work more on it, but there is also overwhelming evidence that the official version about what Romanian language is is totally wrong...

    First of all, Daci/Dacians and Getes/Getians are the same people (hopefully this fact is unanimously accepted).
    I will just quote some authors:

    Heinrich PANTALEONIS, The book of the heroes of the German nation:

    Dacus
    , also called Danus, suitor of Tuiscon, the central deity of the old Germans, the Son of the Sky and Earth, the creator of humans, characterized by special seriousness and skills. Tuiscon gave him the land around Istru, to the North until Sarmatia and to the South until the Danube. After that he leaded a great people of the Dacians to the German sea (Baltica) and to the peoples from the North and to the islands, and according to some opinions he put them near the Danes. This country is still governed today by the King of Denmark, great among the German dukes. The old inhabitants of Denmark were called Cimbri or Cimerians. It was established that the country they lived in firstly was called, from Dacus, Dacia, and it is nowadays the Great Walachia, from which a part is now called Transylvania or Siebenbürgen.

    Other heroes of the German nation were (the spelling of names according to the quoted volume): Zamolxis, Dromigethes, Boerobist, Deceneu, Comosicus, Cotiso, Scorilo, Dorpaneus and Decebal.

    [all of these are names of great Geto-Dacian personalities, either sages or priests or political leaders]


    Robert L. REYNOLDS, professor at University of Wisconsin (USA):
    In his own later work on the primitive Germanic tribes... he had come across references again and again to the Getae, designated in the Latin sources as the most prominent of all Germanic nations.


    In Thesaurus POETICUS linguae latinae of L. QUICHERAT, 1899 edition, p. 290, Dacus, I, m; Daci, ōrum, pl. [some Greek letters hard to reproduce with a normal keyboard]. Dāces, peuple de Germanie/ Dacians, people from Germany.
    However, besides those who are saying that Getes/Dacians were Germanics, some are saying that Germanics came from Getes/Dacians:
    Laurentius TOPPELTINUS (1641-1670), Saxon historian from Transylvania, publishes, in 1667, at Lugduni (today Lyon, France), Origines et occasus Transsylvanorum /The beginnings and dawn of the Transylvanians. In chapter III, § III, p. 25, he writes:

    That according to others, all the Germans, even the Saxons themselves, are descendents of the Dacians or Transylvanians: the German author Petrus Bertius, in Commentaries regarding the German realities, Book I, c.2, Germans, they say, the noblest of all European peoples, have their origins from the Dacians.


    Jane Akomb LEAKE
    : The Getes were looked upon as the founding nation of all Germanic people.
    More in this thread: The Geto-Dacian Origin Of The Germanics and The Geto-Dacians As Germanics


    Quote Originally Posted by Sól View Post
    Just curious, but if Romanians are a mixed people of different backgrounds as you say, then how do you estimate which Romanians are and which aren't Germanic? (...) Because I don't think I need to tell you that not everyone who looks Nordic is Germanic, or viceversa. While Scandinavians are generally Nordic, there are darker Germanics in Central Europe and Nordic people in Russia who aren't Germanic.
    Well, there are obviously people of all European subraces in Romania, including Nordics. It's not easy to tell, of course. I guess you should take case by case each person and study their genealogy, besides doing racial classification. This would be the traditional way.
    Romania also had lots of recent Germanic influence, I mean for example German influence. And some people just mixed...

    And, sorry, but I'm not going to answer publicly too personal questions. I don't think this place should be about publicly discussing private persons without their consent. All that I want to admit publicly is that I have enough German ancestry to be German according to the official standards, so even without considering the "controversial" Geto-Dacian part as Germanic or not, adding the culture part, I consider that I am fully entitled to consider myself Germanic. End of story. If you'd like to know more things about me, just write me in private, please, not in public, thanks!
    Die Farben duften frisch und grün... Lieblich haucht der Wind um mich.

  11. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Víđálfr View Post
    And, sorry, but I'm not going to answer publicly too personal questions. I don't think this place should be about publicly discussing private persons without their consent.
    Considering that this is a forum for people of Germanic heritage, ethnic background is relevant and not something optional, that you can hide or be ambiguous about and tell people in private if or when you feel like it. In fact, it's a required field: New Members, Ethnicity & Ancestry

    All that I want to admit publicly is that I have enough German ancestry to be German according to the official standards, so even without considering the "controversial" Geto-Dacian part as Germanic or not, adding the culture part, I consider that I am fully entitled to consider myself Germanic. End of story. If you'd like to know more things about me, just write me in private, please, not in public, thanks!
    What "official" standards? Romanian? Generally, "official standards" are lax if not laughable. Even the German "right of return" has been abused. They're known to have been used by foreigners with very little German ancestry (Poles, Russians with a German grandparent or great-grandparent) who wanted to get to Germany for economic reasons and the like. In fact, those laws were so lax that some of them even brought their fully Polish, Russian etc. families with them. Today it's not difficult to get your hands on a piece of paper to make you an "official" of another country, but that doesn't mean that everyone who has it is automatically a part of that nation. Nation is about blood ties. You can't join it at your own will. You're either part of it by birth and blood, or you aren't. That you come with this "official standards" cop out on a forum that is based on meta-ethnicity of all things makes it even more ridiculous.

    If you're so uncomfortable with revealing your real, full ethnic background, then maybe you should join a forum that doesn't care about such things.

    Being Germanic is not something you suddenly decide to be one day, after reading some theories written by obscure, dubious people. You either are or you aren't. Someone who is less than half Germanic by ancestry isn't entitled to call themselves Germanic. And someone who is negligibly Germanic (along the lines or 1/8, 1/16 and the like) has no right to claim full Germanicness. If someone who isn't Germanic is going to try to claim that role, you can be sure that they are going to be called out!

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  13. #20
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    Since when exactly are South Tyroleans "lost, assimilated or highly marginalised"? Other than the fact they're still caught in an unforgiving Italian state some hundred years later, they've managed to stay a majority in their region, have successfully negotiated far-reaching autonomy, keep their customs alive and thus perhaps compare more to Hungarian speakers in Siebenbürgen than to let's say Volga Germans.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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