Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 63

Thread: Dinarics Related to Armenoids

  1. #21
    Member
    Marius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Last Online
    Tuesday, March 8th, 2005 @ 03:45 PM
    Subrace
    Cro-Magnid/Dinarid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Europe
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Politics
    Conservative Christian
    Religion
    Uniate, Greek-Catholic
    Posts
    880
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    Quote Originally Posted by Von Braun
    Marius, I would never mistake you for a middle easterner.
    Hello.

    I wanted to continue the previous post and say that after 1918, when all the presented regions unite, there were some population shift, from a region to another like in any other country, so now the landscape may be more uniform. It's a bit like the USA, I think. I don't know exactly the situation there.
    First there were the American Indians, then Europeans arrived, but I am sure some mixture appeared, then some Afro-American arrived and now the Central-Americans. So, I think all this population shift gave place to important mixtures, which you may see somehow in Europe, also.

    That's why I think each individual must be treated after his own value as a human being, which may be totally different of the average of his/her subrace or race.

    Don't you think so?

  2. #22
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    No, they are not. Orientalids are low skulled and long headed, and also much longer faced and leaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Von Braun
    Are Karpathids supposed to be Orientalid?

  3. #23
    Account Inactive
    Von Braun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, March 16th, 2005 @ 08:00 AM
    Subrace
    Dinarid-UP-Kelt Nordid-Alpinid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Occupation
    Public sector
    Politics
    Misanthrope
    Religion
    None
    Posts
    1,031
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher
    No, they are not. Orientalids are low skulled and long headed, and also much longer faced and leaner.
    Also, to set things straight, are you using "Arabid" synonymously with "Orientalid?" The low skulled and long-headed thing sounds like a description of an Arabid, and I have also seen some sources use these terms synonymously, while others use "Oriental" in a very generic way to mean anything from the east. In that sense, all Europid subtypes have Oriental roots (albeit of varying distances in the past) since to get from sub-saharran Africa to Europe you pretty much have to go through the near east and middle east.

  4. #24
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    Es geht gut, danke.

    What I understand of Karpathid is that it is a short headed and dark type that resemble Gorid (as your facial shape) as for certain facial characteristics. It is the same as the Litoral race of Deniker. However, the nose is larger than the Gorid (from Polish gora = mountain). According to the Swedish physical anthropologist Bertil Lundman it is due to ancient Armenid strains which he claim is also the view of Hungarian investigators. Lundman (1943) put it in a Taurid group where the sub races are Dinarid, mtebin (from Georgian mtebi = mountain) and the shorter Armenoid with a strongly fleshy nose, and the Karpathid which is supposed to be a relatively modern type. In 1977 he wrote that it "originated from mixtures of Mediterraneans with Armenids". In Jordens Folkstammar (1988), p. 50 Lundman wrote that ot could have arisen in ancient times through a mixture of NW Hungary's mine regions between the (already fairly Alpinid?) native inhabitants and mountain of Armenoid race.

    The Karpathid type is common in Central - and Eastern Europe. I do not think that you would be out place in even some Swiss cantons.

    Who claimed that Romania got even an Orientalid minority? I have met mostly ethnic Hungarians from Transylvania so it is difficult for me to say. I met a Turkish minority from Romania. This young man is tall, 198 cm and he has fair skin, blonde hair and blue eyes. He spoke Turkish and saw himself as a Turk from Romania, but I do not know all of his ancestry. That was quite surprising!

    Well your people the Romanians are in Bessarabia, Moldau and Wallachia of mesocephalic, with all kinds of folk and races mixed Pontids, in Siebenbürgen often of the same mixture as in Galizien: short statured, short headed and high skulled with weakly hooked noses (rather an East Baltid-Karpathid type).

    I read that the people in Dobrudscha are not Romanians. Is that true?


    Quote Originally Posted by marius
    Hallo, Volksdeutscher, wie geht's?

    What do you understand exactly by Karpathid? I know about my nose form, somebody told me it was Dinaric. Well, my family is mostly mostly originating from Transylvania, where as I saw, the majority pure Transylvanians are alpino-nordid/borreby (the Romanians), ladogan-mongoloid (the Hungarians) and nordid (the Germans). The Gypsie minority is supposed to be part of the Dravidic subrace, but sometimes, even Pontids or non-fine Dinarics may be called Gypsies by people there.
    There is also some Dinarid in Transylvania, but in smaller number, I think.

    The rest of my family comes from Southern Romania, Wallachia. Well, there is somehow different, the bigger majority is formed of Dinarics and Pontids. Gypsies are somehow more integrated, even if not at very high degree. There is also a minority of Alpines.

    The other regions of Romania, Moldova (I have no family from that region) is more Neo-Danubian in the North and more Dinarid-Pontid in the South. There is also a minority of Ladogans.

    Dobrogea, the most SE part is formed mostly by Pontids, but there are also a number of Alpines, sometimes combined with Med.

    Does this give to anybody an Oriental image? At least not to me.

    I wait for your opinion, everybody.

  5. #25
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    I am using Orientalid and Arabid interchangeably. I am using it to describe a specific type. The Arabid or Orientalid is remotely related to Insular (the West Mediterranid) which is common in Iberia. Both are long headed and low skulled, dark, long - and narrow faced with straight noses. B Lundman believe the low skulled Europids are derived from Cro-Magnoids whereas the high skulled types from the Brünn race.

    By boat you can also get through the straight of Gibraltar. What about through the Mediterranean Sea?

    There are usually claims that Southern Italy got a strong Orientalid element. Nevertheless, the remnant from the Arabs in Sicily is more Armenoid and Saharid than it is Orientalid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Von Braun
    Also, to set things straight, are you using "Arabid" synonymously with "Orientalid?" The low skulled and long-headed thing sounds like a description of an Arabid, and I have also seen some sources use these terms synonymously, while others use "Oriental" in a very generic way to mean anything from the east. In that sense, all Europid subtypes have Oriental roots (albeit of varying distances in the past) since to get from sub-saharran Africa to Europe you pretty much have to go through the near east and middle east.

  6. #26
    Account Inactive
    Von Braun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, March 16th, 2005 @ 08:00 AM
    Subrace
    Dinarid-UP-Kelt Nordid-Alpinid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Occupation
    Public sector
    Politics
    Misanthrope
    Religion
    None
    Posts
    1,031
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    Are Dinaric and Karpathid mutually exclusive (a person cannot be classified as both), or can someone be classified as both?

  7. #27
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    They share some characteristics. The composition is similar but not the same. What they share is the big and weakly to strongly hooked nose, flat occiput, high vault, short head and dark pigmentation.

    I do not see the reason of classifying a person as both. It is difficult to define the differences as it is.

    Lundman believe that Dinarid is a Pontid offshot. Coon seem to define Dinarid as a variable type.

    "Apparently a brachycephalized blend in which Atlanto-Mediterranean and Cappadocian strains are important, with Alpine acting as the brachycephalizing agent in mixture. Borreby and Corded elements, also Nordic, appear to be involved in some regions." (The Races of Europe by Carleton Coon, Chapter VIII, section 6)

    Cappadocian is according to Coon a small Mediterranid from Asia Minor.

    He wrote under the same chapter that, "The difference between the Armenoid and the Dinaric is that here it is the Irano-Afghan race which furnishes the Mediterranean element, brachycephalized by Alpine mixture."

    I wonder if Coon mean a Pontid by Atlanto-Mediterranean. I must say that at least Coon tried to explain the origin in a more satisfactory way than Lundman does. But if Borreby and Corded elements and Nordid is involved in some regions then I wonder if one should any longer call that a Dinarid.

    The brachycephalisation is the main problem. That is probably in some cases a result of that almost all sub races (less so in the England and Sweden) were affected by a brachycephalisation during the Middle Ages.



    Quote Originally Posted by Von Braun
    Are Dinaric and Karpathid mutually exclusive (a person cannot be classified as both), or can someone be classified as both?

  8. #28
    Account Inactive
    Von Braun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Last Online
    Wednesday, March 16th, 2005 @ 08:00 AM
    Subrace
    Dinarid-UP-Kelt Nordid-Alpinid
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Gender
    Age
    43
    Occupation
    Public sector
    Politics
    Misanthrope
    Religion
    None
    Posts
    1,031
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    @ Volksdeutscher: In regard to the first point about boats, I was exluding that a priori when discussing ancient migrations.

    Did you once classify me and my mother as a Karpathid? My mother is 100% German, and on sub-racial percentage breakdowns for Germany that I have seen, there is no category called "Karpathid" (nor is there for any other European country). I find it hard to believe that Karpathids are common in central Europe yet McCulloch has no category for them. Is it possible that you are labelling several Dinarics as Karpathids, or perhaps that McCulloch rejects this label and uses only Dinaric?

    Also, I have been told by almost everyone (almost a dozen different informed opinions) that Dinaric is my predominant element. There is not even an option for Karpathid in the profile. What do you make of all of this?

  9. #29

  10. #30
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Last Online
    Friday, December 8th, 2006 @ 02:25 AM
    Country
    European Union European Union
    Gender
    Posts
    4,100
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts

    Post Re: Dinarics related to Armenoids,

    Physical anthropologists do not have the same terminology. Is your mother a South German?

    Here is a quote from Jordens Folkstammar (1988) by Bertil Lundman, "N Ungern och Karpaterna har stark blanding med östbaltiska, (öst-)alpina och ställvis dinThora typer, samt ej minst en, ända in i södra Schlesien förekommande, småväxt och kortskallig samt mörk "karpatid" lokaltyp. I can give the following translation, N Hungary and the Carpathians have a strongly mixed with East Baltic, (east-)Alpine and sometimes dinaric types, and not the least, existing as far as southern Schlesien, small in growth and short headed and dark "karpatid" local type.

    McCulloch follow Coon and he does not use that term. You can make a thread about it, like "am I Dinarid or Karpathid?". People tend to disagree but I guess that you are Dinarid if most people have classified you as such. As far as I can remember your father do not look Dinarid.



    Quote Originally Posted by Von Braun
    @ Volksdeutscher: In regard to the first point about boats, I was exluding that a priori when discussing ancient migrations.

    Did you once classify me and my mother as a Karpathid? My mother is 100% German, and on sub-racial percentage breakdowns for Germany that I have seen, there is no category called "Karpathid" (nor is there for any other European country). I find it hard to believe that Karpathids are common in central Europe yet McCulloch has no category for them. Is it possible that you are labelling several Dinarics as Karpathids, or perhaps that McCulloch rejects this label and uses only Dinaric?

    Also, I have been told by almost everyone (almost a dozen different informed opinions) that Dinaric is my predominant element. There is not even an option for Karpathid in the profile. What do you make of all of this?

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Do You Consider Armenoids European?
    By Matrix in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: Thursday, February 17th, 2011, 06:24 PM
  2. Iranians and Kurds are both Armenoids
    By Euclides in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: Tuesday, December 28th, 2004, 08:33 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •