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Thread: "Naturalized" Germanics or Loss of Germanic Status

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    Senior Member Idis's Avatar
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    "Naturalized" Germanics or Loss of Germanic Status

    The blood vs. culture thread made me wonder about this topic. In America, as well as other countries, one can become a naturalized citizen. While this can be controversial and many people are opposed to it, usually racial incompatibilities are cited as a reason. But what about when the person is racially Europid? Do you believe that one can become a naturalized Germanic? Why or why not? Of course, there is no such thing as Germanic citizenship, I am taking mostly about being accepted by other Germanics as being one of their own people. Are there certain categories of people who would be more eligible than others in your opinion?

    A few examples below, purely hypothetical, which one would you consider as a possible candidate for naturalization?

    Person A's ancestry is unknown (they don't know their biological parents) but they have a Europid appearance. Their adoptive parents are Germanic and this is how this person is raised and identifies. Would you consider this person Germanic?

    Person B is in the same situation as A (adopted by Germanic parents, raised as Germanic) but they can trace their biological ancestry and it is not Germanic. However, it is still European (for example Russian). Would you consider this person Germanic, or would you consider them Slavic?

    Person B is not Germanic by ancestry, they are born to Italian parents who immigrated to Denmark. But this person is born in Denmark, speaks Danish as a native language and is raised according to Danish customs. What would you consider this person, Danish or Italian?

    Person C is born in Serbia, to Serbian parents. They speak Serbian as a native language, however their parents immigrate to Austria when C is just a child. In Austria, when C begins to go to school they speak German and quickly adopt Austrian culture. Overtime, they only speak Serbian with their parents, sporadically, and forget most of it. Would this person be in your mind Austrian, or Serbian?

    Person D is Greek born and raised, and immigrates to the Netherlands as an adult. After a while, they learn to speak Dutch fluently and adopt Dutch culture, they apply for Dutch citizenship and lose their Greek citizenship, however they can still remember how to speak Greek, as well as all the aspects of Greek culture. What would you count this person as, Greek or Dutch?

    Of course, these are only a few examples, you can substitute the ethnicities and countries for any other Germanic/European ones. Or do you believe that ethnicity makes a big difference? For example, if person B was not Italian, but Finnish, or Estonian, or person D was not Greek but French, etc.? Are certain ethnicities more assimilable than others and if so, which? Conversely, which are the ethnicities which are hardest to assimilate?

    My second question would be, do you believe that someone could lose their Germanic status, and if so, in which cases? For example, becoming naturalized in another country, or by engaging in certain acts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Person A's ancestry is unknown (they don't know their biological parents) but they have a Europid appearance. Their adoptive parents are Germanic and this is how this person is raised and identifies. Would you consider this person Germanic?
    First off, we have to define what 'Germanic' means in this day and age. In my opinion, being 'Germanic' is first and foremost something rooted in history and ancestry. There's no cohesive 'Germanic People' today, as there was 2500 years ago. An Icelander and an Austrian understand very little of the other's mother tongue, have a very different culture, and a very different idea of who and what they are. Seeing oneself and other Peoples as 'Germanic' is primarily about acknowledging our shared origins, and feeling a sense of familiarity towards each other based on that, in my opinion. But considering all of the different contemporary Germanic Peoples as part of one and the same ethnic group doesn't make a lot of sense today. If one doesn't have (predominant) ancestry leading back to the Germanic ethnogenesis in the first millennium BC, one simply isn't Germanic, the way I see it.

    Being part of a distinct Nation is more tangible and relevant for today. And I would say that if a person is physically and culturally indistinguishable from the core of a Nation's population, and have a history and identity rooted in that People (in whole or in considerable part), they can be considered a member of it.
    A nation is an organic thing, historically defined.
    A wave of passionate energy which unites past, present and future generations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    The blood vs. culture thread made me wonder about this topic.
    Thanx for this thread Idis. The same thread (blood vs culture) ''stimulated'' me to think some matters too. Via bit different angel. Before going on that ... I'll give my answer to your questions.

    Personally I could keep one ''Germanic'' if he/she is...
    1.) at least 50% Germanic (genetics/background)
    2.) have mainly lived in Germanic culture (keeping that as his/hers culture)
    3.) looks Germanic.
    Your examples ... many would not pass 1.) and 3.)

    Ok, I would like to ask something else. What is your opinions about Germanics moving to another Germanic country?

    1.) You are against of all kinds of immigration. People should live in country they have born (incl. Germanics)
    2.) You would allow some Germanics moving into your own Germanic country. Those one you feel the most closest ones.
    3.) You would allow all Germanics moving into your own Germanic country.

    Whatever you choose (1., 2. or 3.) ... you would/will naturally live the same way?




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    I would not consider any of those persons Germanic, not even person A who doesn't know their biological parents (they could be anything in reality, probably not even 100% white, so we can't judge by looks alone). If you don't know for a fact, or are in doubt that you are Germanic, then you are IMO, as a rule of thumb, not Germanic, until proven otherwise.

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    The only grey area would be person A, but if they wanted to find out their true ancestry in these days they could get a DNA test to clarify (which should ideally be a free option in an ethnocentric state, especially if they attempt to get citizenship). The rest would not qualify as Germanic in my book, since they lack a very important feature which is ancestry/blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    Ok, I would like to ask something else. What is your opinions about Germanics moving to another Germanic country?

    1.) You are against of all kinds of immigration. People should live in country they have born (incl. Germanics)
    2.) You would allow some Germanics moving into your own Germanic country. Those one you feel the most closest ones.
    3.) You would allow all Germanics moving into your own Germanic country.

    Whatever you choose (1., 2. or 3.) ... you would/will naturally live the same way?
    There is actually a thread specifically about this topic: Do You Accept Intra-Germanic Immigration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtengel View Post
    The only grey area would be person A, but if they wanted to find out their true ancestry in these days they could get a DNA test to clarify (which should ideally be a free option in an ethnocentric state, especially if they attempt to get citizenship). The rest would not qualify as Germanic in my book, since they lack a very important feature which is ancestry/blood.


    There is actually a thread specifically about this topic: Do You Accept Intra-Germanic Immigration?
    Thank you very much for this link .

    I will read it through ... and maybe comment/reply if I feel so.

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    Senior Member Idis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Žoreišar View Post
    First off, we have to define what 'Germanic' means in this day and age.
    To clarify, I used Germanic as an umbrella-term for the nations that are most commonly understood as descended from ancient Germanic tribes (Scandinavians, Icelanders, Anglo-Saxons, Germans, Dutch, and the like).

    Quote Originally Posted by Finnish Swede View Post
    3.) looks Germanic.
    Interesting. What would you define as a Germanic look? Would it make a difference if some of my examples possessed a Germanic look? What about those who are already Germanic but do not have the typical Germanic look, or could pass in other countries? While some ancient Germanics were described as blonds, hair dying/bleaching was quite common (especially among the Vikings) and certain ancient Germanics were describes as being "swarthy".

    Between person A and person B, who would you believe to be Germanic?

    Person A



    Person B



    If you are going to tell me person A, well this person is Spanish. And person B is Icelandic (as far as I know, no non-European ancestry, just a strange recombination of traits).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idis View Post
    Between person A and person B, who would you believe to be Germanic?

    Person A



    Person B



    If you are going to tell me person A, well this person is Spanish. And person B is Icelandic (as far as I know, no non-European ancestry, just a strange recombination of traits).
    Nope. I meant all those 3 parts should fit at the same time/in same person (not the look alone). If he is Spanish (he is hardly Germanic minimum 50% and has hardly lived most of time in Germanic culture).

    Nope, I would not keep Björk Germanic. She might be that via her genetics, and for sure she has lived in Iceland ... but not based on her look. For your info I have seen pictures of her parents, seen their family names etc. Would be very interesting to see more of her ancestors. Anyway first son of hers looks pretty Asian but the younger daughter opposite looks Northern European. Different fathers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sól View Post
    I would not consider any of those persons Germanic, not even person A who doesn't know their biological parents (they could be anything in reality, probably not even 100% white, so we can't judge by looks alone). If you don't know for a fact, or are in doubt that you are Germanic, then you are IMO, as a rule of thumb, not Germanic, until proven otherwise.
    I thought the same.

    And a DNA test for a person in the case A like Nachtengel said. Like that "spaniard".

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