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Thread: Investing in Gold

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    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Investing in Gold



    I know there are a few member who cleverly converted a segment of their savings to gold in recent months. I'm ashamed to say I've been a procrastinator - aware of the lucrativeness in doing so, but too inexperienced to commit. I have finally taken the plunge however, converting a whopping third of my savings to gold bullion. If I had done this two months ago when I first thought to, I'd be in a better position, but the signs are that the value is going to increase rapidly as we enter recession.

    My reasons for investing:

    - Hyper-inflation is on its way, particularly with ridiculous government deficits, borrowing and the bank bailouts.

    - We've been reminded how unstable the banks who hold our money can be.

    - I predict the British pound will continue to fall (the fall so far has been massive) and actually, I think it's likely the pound will match the Euro more and more closely, until we're told we might aswell join it. At this point, savings in pound sterling will have diminished hugely.

    - We're entering an age where the value of tangeable, real assets is being rediscovered, and where the worthlessness of the credit-notes we call cash is coming to light.

    - Gold is becoming scarce, particularly since governments have begun selling off their private reserves at a loss.



    Has anyone else invested in gold?

    Please feel free to use this thread to post links to news, articles, live charts and alternative information regarding gold. It is also a place to offer tips and ask questions.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    Bit of a tangent, but this said it all to me. I can't believe there was so little fuss at the time:
    http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/gold...ayers-2bn.html
    Gordon Brown's Gold Sell Off Cost Taxpayers 2bn
    Adrian Ash - Wed 18 Apr, 2007
    Thus the biggest financial story in the United Kingdom today bigger even than our unprecedented bubble in credit is that Prudence "ignored advice" before selling half the nation's gold at rock-bottom prices in 1999. You might wonder why the fuss. Accountants at Grant Thornton reckon that Culpability cost taxpayers 2 billion by selling 400 tonnes at the bottom of the market.


    - Shocking news from the Sunday Times this week. Gordon Brown is an idiot.

    - More than that, Tony Blair doesn't always speak the truth. New Labour likes to bury bad news. Expert knowledge counts for nothing at Westminster any more.

    - Thus the biggest financial story in the United Kingdom today – bigger even than our unprecedented bubble in credit – is that Prudence "ignored advice" before selling half the nation's gold at rock-bottom prices in 1999.

    - You might wonder why the fuss. Accountants at Grant Thornton reckon that Culpability cost taxpayers £2 billion by selling 400 tonnes at the bottom of the market. But so what? Central government gets through that much money every 36 hours.

    - Two billion here...two billion there...and pretty soon, you're ready to fund a war in the desert or pay disability allowance to one-in-four people of working age.

    - Still, it's nice to see the Sunday Times reporting a story that's only 7 years old. Now it reveals that a group of top gold analysts and traders – gathered together by the Bank of England – were shocked at the poor timing of the government's decision even before it happened.

    - The paper doesn't ask or comment on whether these experts, given advanced warning of the advanced warning, used the insider information to their own advantage. But "the timing of the decision was ludicrous," says Peter Fava, then head of precious metals at HSBC. "We told them [the BoE] – you are going to push the price down before you sell it." That's just what happened, of course. Gold sank by almost one-tenth on the back of Gordon Brown's decision to announce his sales ahead of time.

    - "I was surprised they had chosen the auction method,"
    adds Martin Stokes, a former vice-president at J.P.Morgan. "It indicated they did not have a real understanding of the gold market."

    - Clueless or not, however, it didn't matter. The Bank of England had no say in the matter. It only got to advise the government on HOW to sell the gold. The fact of the sale itself had already been decided by the Treasury. And since then, says the Times, the government has since defied calls to release minutes and emails written at the time. The Times says it's because the experts warned the government to hang onto its gold. The truth is, however, that holding gold in 1999 looked as dumb to central bankers as Gordon Brown looks to everyone today.

    - "The deterioration of Switzerland’s public finances led to a growing awareness of the opportunity costs of maintaining the existing structure of the SNB’s assets,"
    says Philipp Hildebrand, now vice-chairman of the Swiss National Bank. "The vast gold holdings increasingly gave rise to concern in the context of bearish market sentiments and of gold sales by other central banks. In November 1997, a partial revision of the Swiss National Bank Law increased the flexibility of the SNB’s reserve management activities. However, further legislative reforms were required to enable gold sales."

    - In short, Gordon Brown might have been an idiot, but he wasn't alone in his idiocy. And now? Japan's finance minister said this weekend that the International Monetary Fund should sell its own gold reserves too – an idea floated by Gordon Brown at the turn of the century and backed by Alan Greenspan recently.

    - "Japan has told the committee, 'Why not sell gold?'"
    says Koji Omi. Why not indeed? The IMF would no doubt find willing buyers in the Kremlin, Beijing, perhaps even Johannesburg. The South African government recently acquired gold direct from one of the country's leading gold miners. Interfax reported last Thursday that Moscow is thinking of buying gold direct from Russian extraction companies, too.

    - And China, reports the Sunday Times, was an eager buyer of Britain's gold at Gordon Brown's giveaway auctions.

    - "Several Asian countries including China are named by an insider as having bought the gold 'on the cheap' from the Treasury," says the paper. "The Chinese may have made more than £1 billion from Brown’s botched sell- off."

    - Meantime in the spot market, gold for immediate delivery continues to rise against all paper currencies – the fiat money pumped out at will, in just the way that gold can't be, by governments in the United Kingdom, Eurozone, Japan, Australia, South Africa, US, China, Russia...

    - Gold closed Friday night just shy of an 11-month high.
    It completed its sixth gaining week on the run. Gold has now gained 6.5% in Dollar terms this year. It's up 5.2% versus the Euro and has put on 8.8% against Sterling – the same gain that it's delivered against the Japanese Yen.

    - Is it time to sell yet? Full disclosure demands that we remind you: Owning the metal – as a defence against monetary inflation, low interest rates, and the destruction of sovereign currency values – might not make you rich. Success cannot be guaranteed, dear reader, only deserved.

    - But for as long Gordon Brown remains "short" of gold bullion, owning it can't be too stupid, we guess. At least, not as stupid as Dear Prudence!

    [Editor's Note: Looking to own gold, but unsure how best to buy and hold the metal? Learn more about the No.1 route to private gold ownership – at the very best prices, on the smallest fees possible – here:

    "The Purest Gold at the Tightest Prices"

    http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/arti...lttustain.html

    Regards
    Adrian Ash
    for The Daily Reckoning

    Adrian Ash is head of research at BullionVault.com- the world's fastest-growing and best-value gold ownership service.

    This article is from The Daily Reckoning. The Daily Reckoning digs deeper than your newspaper ever dares to bring you the real truth about the stock market...the gold price...oil supply...property trends...interest rates...the US dollar…China's bubble…commodity prices…and much more. And you can sign up FREE!
    Forget your paper money (and most of that is usually stored in theoretical electronic forms on a bank's system). Even bricks and mortar is not ideal at the moment, given the time you'll have to wait to cash in, and the problems of living in the meantime. Commodities is where it's at, and nice moveable ones. You want finance tips - look to those who've been doing it for millenia, to whom it's almost in the blood.

    "Mother, teacher said we should all dress in our national costumes tomorrow, for multicultural day"
    "Oi veh, ten years of age, and already you want gold teeth and a fur coat?"

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    Senior Member rainman's Avatar
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    a) I looked into buying gold and silver coins as a way of currency trade with something of actual value. All I found were 1 ounce of say silver which is worth $10 selling as a $200 silver coin and put up as a "good investment". Most of the investments like this are scams. They overprice the material. Admittedly you should expect to pay more because of the middle man premiums but come on, you can't sell it for near what you payed.

    b) Gold values go down in a recession along with all other commodities. Gold is more of a long term investment.

    I would diversify your investments. A little Gold, a little silver. A lot of commodities like stock up on food reserves. Possibly water if you got something good to store it in. Everyday tools that can be put up and won't rust but that can bartered with (say hammers, things like that). Land ownership (as long as taxes aren't too high). When the economy goes sour you can trade an expensive diamond for a day's worth of food which is what happened in the great depression. The most valuable things are what people need. Like food, clothes, everyday items. You do have to worry about will these things rot and have a good way to store them in a place where no one knows about them or can get to them.

    Gold and silver though will rebound when the economy picks back up. Seems like copper has a lot of value too but has a tendency to turn green and go bad. I think though you can stock up on grains like rice and flour and stuff really cheap. Store it in an airtight container in a dark cellar somewhere. If there is a food shortage then at least you got plenty to eat. Water similar, but if its in plastic jugs need to put it somewhere really cool and know that the plastic will start seeping into it over time. Better if there were some glass containers or something for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    Better if there were some glass containers or something for that.
    Learn your finances from the Jews, and your survival skills from the post-Communists:

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    I put quite a bit of my money in gold. Hyperinflation is going to be a problem with all the new fiat money being pumped into the economy to prevent deflation. I don't follow the day-to-day prices, I'm in for the long haul. Btw, invest in some gold coins & keep them in a safe-deposit box at the bank. In times of crisis they could come in handy as a means of transaction versus buying bullion stored in Swiss bank vault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Btw, invest in some gold coins & keep them in a safe-deposit box at the bank.
    What's your advice on acquiring them? How are you avoiding the Middle Men?
    And what about jewellery?

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    It's pretty hard to avoid the middlemen unless you are buying directly from the person holding the gold. Generally you buy through a broker or you can buy at a coin shop that deals in gold coins. There is also a premium above the price of the coins paid to the dealer for acting as the middleman. I found it is cheaper to order from gold brokers rather then coin dealers, if you are buying more then a few coins. The only way you can save on premiums if it you buy a lot of gold, like in the tens of thousands of $. In a city the size of Manchester you should be able to find quite a few coin dealers, shop around & find out how much of a premium they charge.

    As for storing gold in a safe-deposit box, that is the safest thing to do. And if the bank goes under, the contents of the boxes still remain the property of the persons renting the boxes, the banking authorities will allow the box renters to retrieve their property.
    Last edited by Æmeric; Monday, November 24th, 2008 at 09:49 PM. Reason: Spelling.

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    By The Gods, Noooooo!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Btw, invest in some gold coins & keep them in a safe-deposit box at the bank. In times of crisis they could come in handy as a means of transaction versus buying bullion stored in Swiss bank vault.
    "Safety" deposit boxes can be - and have been - seized in times of great financial turmoil. The government has in the past confiscated gold. I don't care to wager odds on whether such things will happen again.

    If you're going to buy physical gold - which I have - then the only prudent thing to do is keep it at your home in a proper safe - which I do.

    I see the dollar simply failing, and hyperinflation finishing it off. Gold (and silver, which is a bargain) is a smart thing to own a lot of right now.

    And once the gold goes up rather smashingly? BUY LAND. As much as possible. Land = food = independence = safety for kith and kin. And that's all I really care about, honestly - just me and mine.

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    Senior Member Cythraul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    b) Gold values go down in a recession along with all other commodities. Gold is more of a long term investment.
    Absolutely. It's common sense that during a recession, the demand will be low, thus resulting in modest prices. My decision to convert to gold is based on the long term, but quite rapid inflation I foresee happening over the next 5+ years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    I don't follow the day-to-day prices, I'm in for the long haul.
    Difficult to resist though I find. I consider my savings hard-earned and I'm anxious to see my gold appreciate. I'll have to learn to stop following prices. My sanity depends on it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    Btw, invest in some gold coins & keep them in a safe-deposit box at the bank. In times of crisis they could come in handy as a means of transaction versus buying bullion stored in Swiss bank vault.
    At the risk of divulging too much, I'm holding on to all of mine - most likely at my parent's house or somewhere extremely secure, in a safe of course. Reason is that although you pay a premium for bullion, I simply don't trust the banks to take care of my investments. If I did, I'd probably have left my investment as fiat money. Perhaps I'm over-paranoid, but in the event of a catastrophic collapse or other world-shaking event, I want something tangeable in my possession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oswiu View Post
    What's your advice on acquiring them? How are you avoiding the Middle Men?
    I'm not avoiding the middle man myself. This way I can be confident in the integrity of my gold. It's common to pay a 10-15% premium on bullion coins, but I believe them to be the most practical form of gold. I'm sure jewellery's worthwhile but more difficult to mint and measure. In short, officially-minted sovereign coins offer the most reliable investment. I'll take reliability over the more lucrative option.

    Also Oswiu, you may find - as I have - that many dealers are out of stock. The current demand is huge. I'll share my hours of googling with you and recommend www.atsbullion.com if you're interested in investment bullion. Their prices seem most competitive and they have quite a bit in stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Eells View Post
    I see the dollar simply failing, and hyperinflation finishing it off. Gold (and silver, which is a bargain) is a smart thing to own a lot of right now.
    Absolutely. hyper-inflation is my largest concern by far and all the signs are pointing that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Eells View Post
    And once the gold goes up rather smashingly? BUY LAND. As much as possible. Land = food = independence = safety for kith and kin. And that's all I really care about, honestly - just me and mine.
    I second that. Land is the ultimate investment, but I feel at this time, gold is a better one. I do see gold investment as a bridge to land investment, not a means of making a fortune.
    "If by being a racialist, you mean a man who despises a human being because he belongs to another race, or a man that believes one race is inherently superior to another in civilisation or capability of civilisation, then the answer is emphatically no." - Enoch Powell

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    I bought about ten pounds of silver during the peak of the consumer credit crisis. Since the prices of precious metals took a temporary dip, I've already made quite a bit.
    "Ocean is more ancient than the mountains, and freighted with the memories and the dreams of Time."
    -H.P. Lovecraft

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